Law Firm & Entrepreneurial Success with Allison Williams, Esq.
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About this episode:
Allison Williams, known as the Law Firm Mentor is the owner of two successful companies. She is the Founder of Williams Law Group, a full service law firm where she is a Fellow of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers. After taking Williams Law Group from start-up to a multi-million dollar business in 3.5 years she launched a second business, Law Firm Mentor, where she provides business coaching services for solo and small law firm attorneys. Ms. Williams has appeared on the Katie Couric show and has published articles in the Huffington Post addressing issues of child maltreatment. Allison has seen 7-figure success and she's sharing what she's learned from that journey today on the She Built It™ Experience today, enjoy!
Topics Discussed:
Why Allison decided to start her own law firm in order to grow more
How Allison balances the opposite traits of a lawyer and business owner
Believing that you can make huge impact and be financially successful
Why your success is dependent on you being yourself
How Allison has created scalability in her business through niching
Why Allison fully believes in the transformation business coaching can provide
How growth can happen when you systematize your business and culture
How Allison finds joy in the growth of her team
About Allison:
Ever since Allison C. Williams, Esq., played the Prosecutor in her high school history class assignment, Allison felt it was her calling to become an attorney. Graduating Cum Laude and in the top thirty percent of her class, Allison earned her law degree from Syracuse University College of Law in 2003.
As the founder and owner of Williams Law Group, LLC, Allison’s practice focuses exclusively on matrimonial law and family law. Allison’s practice has an emphasis on complex Child Welfare matters, including representation in DYFS/DCPP matters, representation of resource family parents and consultation to matrimonial counsel regarding DCPP investigations and issues. Additionally, Allison covers areas from divorce, child custody and support to domestic violence and grandparent visitation.
Resources:
Click here to read a raw, unedited transcript of this episode:
Allison Williams [00:02:16] Thank you so much for having me, Melanie. I'm really excited to talk to you.
Melanie Barr [00:02:19] Tell us about who you are and about your early career experiences leading to becoming the founder of Williams Group and law firm Mentor.
Allison Williams [00:02:28] [00:02:28]So who I am. Wow. That is a big open question. Right? So [3.9s] I am Alison Williams. I own the Williams Law Group in Short Hills, New Jersey, FULL-SERVICE matrimonial law firm. And I have been a matrimonial and family law attorney for my entire 18 year career as a lawyer, 00:02:46 started off [0.5s] and [00:02:47]just [0.0s] fell into practice in family law and ultimately fell in love with it. And in particular, the segment that probably is the most neglected area of family law, which is Child Protective Services, and helping parents that are involved in that area of the law. So I built a big career doing that, kind of pounded the pavement, developed a statewide reputation. And at some point the law firm where I was was just not they treated me well. And I still love the the the managing partner of the family law department. I still [00:03:18]actually [0.0s] very close, but they just didn't have the same vision that I had. They didn't have the same support and infrastructure that I would need to take the practice as big as I wanted it to grow. So ultimately, I started my own law firm and I figured, hey, I'm a good lawyer, I can just do this whole business thing and lickety split. And that was really stupid. Learning as a lawyer does not make you qualified to be a business owner at all. In fact, there are some very characterological traits of lawyers that are antithetical to being good in business. And 00:03:49 [0.0s] I ran smack dab into myself and started working harder to get more done. And at some point I worked myself into exhaustion [00:03:58]to the point where I fell asleep driving and woke up about one centimeter away from a guardrail. Oh, no. Yeah. [8.6s] So that was [00:04:07]kind of [0.2s] the aha moment where I said, OK, working harder is not working. [00:04:11]We got to stop that. [0.7s] And ultimately, I happened upon business coaching and worked with a series of different business coaches. [00:04:19]But [0.0s] the area that probably helped me the most was really shifting my mindset [00:04:23]around everything. [0.3s] So adding strategy to mindset work and really just helped me to skyrocket. [00:04:30]I mean, [0.1s] I took the company from zero dollars into a multimillion dollar business in three and a half years. And then I became a business coach. And now I've created a business coaching company that I took from zero dollars into a multi-million dollar company in three years. And we just once you learn how to make money, making money is not challenging at all. It really is creating the life that you desire around your financial success. And I teach my lawyer with my lawyer clients and people that listen to my podcast and people that follow me on social media that it's not a trade off. You don't have to have time with your family or money in the bank. You can have both. You just have to be very strategic about how you create that.
Melanie Barr [00:05:10] That's great that you listen to yourself and trusted your instincts to know that you could do more and that you learn from multiple coaches, [00:05:17]because I'm sure you got [1.2s] different pieces of advice from a number of different people. And I have talked to so many different lawyers who say law school teaches you to be a good lawyer, but they don't necessarily teach you how to run a business. So what you're doing is so needed for many.
Allison Williams [00:05:32] [00:05:32]Well, I've taken a step back. I mean, [1.3s] most lawyers I know, myself included, say lawyer law school doesn't prepare you to do anything other than write legal briefs. It doesn't teach you how to deal with clients. It doesn't teach you how to deal with the adversarial process. It doesn't teach you how to be a competent, aggressive advocate while also still being civil and professional to the other side. There's just there's so much that comes with actually lawyering that is beyond law school. 00:05:56 [0.0s] But business is never mentioned in law school. You're absolutely right there that, in fact, there's almost in the bar and a somewhat anti money anti business mindset. It's almost like if you are pursuing something for your own interests that is inherently counter to the interests of your client. And that really isn't true. If I tell my lawyers all the time, [00:06:17]like [0.0s] if you have a desire to be the best lawyer that you can because you want to effectively get a result for a client, you want to counsel them to have peace of mind, you want to achieve a goal for them. The best way that you can do that is by making the most of yourself, because when you are stressed, tired, overwhelmed, [00:06:34]broke, [0.0s] that is when you are most likely to take it out on your client to be resentful, to not show up as your best self, to not be the one who wants to wake up early and stay late to fight the good fight because you're so overwhelmed by the basic pragmatics of living in the world we live in that requires money. So helping yourself get to a place of financial profit actually benefits everyone that comes in contact with your employees, your clients, your adversaries, just everyone that's that's tied to you.
Melanie Barr [00:07:01] Do you think sometimes lawyers are taught to think so much about what could go wrong or what could go right that [00:07:06]maybe [0.0s] that holds them back from making certain leaps
Allison Williams [00:07:10] in life business? Yeah, we are. Very risk averse group, statistically, right?
Melanie Barr [00:07:16] And for a reason, probably to help protect your clients.
Allison Williams [00:07:20] Yeah, I mean, if you think about it, what our what our aim is, is we're either fixing something that went wrong. [00:07:25]Right. [0.0s] Or we're trying to prevent something from going wrong. So we're always looking at worst case scenario, worst case scenario comes up when you're trying to figure out the settlement to accept or not accept. Worst case scenario comes up when you try to figure out should we settle or go to trial. Worst case scenario comes up when you say accept this transaction on the other side may walk away and all of that. That teaches us how to be good at the job of operating as an advocate in an adversarial system is antithetical to what you have to do in business. Right? You have to step in the direction of what's unclear and uncertain. You have to take risks. You have to trust people. You have to be able to orchestrate ideas from a place up. I want the outcome. Not every single little task that you want to hold on to and give to someone so that you suck the life out of them and make them dependent upon you and your advice in order to get your job done. All of those things that we have to do and that we do very well to control the narrative and control the activity so that we can have what we want for our clients very much hurts us in terms of growing the business.
Melanie Barr [00:08:29] So interesting. And another reason why what you're doing is so needed. What is one thing that building a successful business has taught you and how does that help you in running your business today?
Allison Williams [00:08:41] So if I were to say what what creating a successful business has taught me, I'd probably say it's taught me that the only way for me to have true success is for me to be who I am. And that may sound a little hokey. So I'm going to put some frame around it. 00:08:59 [0.0s] One of the things that I did when I became a lawyer is I got very good at acting [00:09:03]right. [0.0s] So I showed up to interviews and my next maybe suit with my pressed white blouse and my pearls and my very conservative pumps. And I made sure to wear my hair in a way that covered up the fact that I had seven earrings and made sure that I 00:09:18 [0.0s] didn't add too much boisterousness to whatever I had to say that I spoke to in a calm demeanor. And I was really good at getting job offers. And then I took a job and I, I put on my my Navy suit and I showed up to work and I went to court and asked and advocated with the very same very buttoned up, eloquent prose that was expected for a female. [00:09:42]And I [0.8s] I stayed in my lane and I tried not to be too aggressive. And, [00:09:48]you know, [0.2s] that extra layer of frustration is added to the fact that I'm African-American. So that adds the other layer of certainly you're not allowed to get mad because then you're going to be the angry black woman. So I'm going to do that. Right. So I played my role and I was good at it until one day I just got so tired. I ultimately developed a very severe depression over spending my life in a persistent state of micromanaging everything I said, everything I did, every place I was, every every moment of my life was a package deal. And one day I remember what actually happened. I had gotten to a place where I was really frustrated in my career, but I was having a lot of career success and I was trying. A very complicated case involved abusive head trauma, formerly known as shaken baby syndrome. [00:10:32]And I can't remember where I had gone that morning, [3.2s] but I dressed for court and I slipped on some ice and fell and I ripped the entire side of my skirt all the way up to my to my pelvis and my stockings and even my shoe. I twisted the ankle and twisted the back off my shoe. I was just awful. I'm half naked, wobbling to the car from this little quick checkmark I went into. And thank God I actually had just come back from a trip if I had clothes in the car, but I didn't have court worthy clothes in the car. So I put on the most appropriate thing that I could, which was a shorter than I would have liked sweater dress. And I said, all right, I always wear this with this very big Bangali necklace. And so I can't really wear it without the necklace. And I didn't have any shoes except the shoes that I had worn to a formal. So I was either going to wear that with the shoes. So I ended up wearing like four and a half inch stiletto sandals with my with my dress. And I walked in and I turned a lot of heads. [00:11:37]I had a turning head kind of body back then. [1.7s] And I remember, like, I just I killed in court that day and at some point in time, it was really funny. I'm very friendly with the judge that was over that case. But he me at some point he called me up to the bench. He said, Miss Williams, can I see you for a moment? And then my adversary started to walk up. He said, no, this isn't a sidebar. I just moved this way. So I was like, OK, what did I do? Looks like you've got to tell me about the fact that I'm going to court. And I said, yes, your honor. And he said, you know what you're doing today as I do more of that. [00:12:12]And I was like [0.5s] I was like, OK. And I'm like I'm kind of stunned. So I'm thinking, what does that mean? Something I'm supposed to do more cross-examination. I'm like this. It was like it means like a pretty kick ass.
Melanie Barr [00:12:26] [00:12:26]I love it. [0.5s] I love it. It it is such a beautiful thing when you step into your authentic self and I'm sure you've seen more success because of it. And the judge clearly saw more of who you truly are.
Allison Williams [00:12:38] [00:12:38]Yeah. [0.0s] And that funny thing is that this is a very conservative, very white man. But if I had to do so, I mean, if I could guess what I should do more, I was actually quite the compliment. And you're right. It is there is something to be said about stepping into your authentic self, but also realizing that you can't you can fake it to a certain degree, but you really can't fake it without turning off the people that are meant for you and turning on the people that are not meant for you. Right. Because the reality is, when you are advocating whether you are advocating in the form of negotiation or in the form of client advisement or the form of litigating, you're always in a state of asking questions and giving information and pursuing things from your perspective. Your perspective is a part of who you are and it's going to come out whether you want it to or not. And the harder you have to work to have it not come out, the less of yourself you're going to bring to what you're doing, which is the less effective you're ultimately going to be. So you're not doing yourself. Or your clients, the service, by trying to define your life, by trying to dumb it down, by trying to fit in a box, and it took me a lot of years of therapy and overcoming depression to actually realize that. And then once I finally said, [00:13:54]screw it, [0.3s] I'm not doing that anymore. If I'm in the mood to wear some five inch stilettos to court, that's what's showing up. [00:14:00]Right. [0.0s] And if I am in the in the mood to wear bright red and speak with my hands and have my hands all over the place, I'm a big boys and that big boys will show up. You're going to have to live with that. And if you can't live with that, you're not my person. That's all about me.
Melanie Barr [00:14:15] That's so beautiful. I love it is such great advice because ultimately you are going to be more successful if you're true to who you are and you're going to gain more clients because they're going to see that.
Allison Williams [00:14:25] Absolutely. And, you know, here's the thing. What's what's interesting that I've also found about this since you asked the question about what I've learned from from being successful, is that people are drawn to more success. Everyone wants more for themselves. There's kind of a universal law of life is more like we're always seeking something that we don't have. [00:14:46]Right. [0.0s] It's the human nature to desire. And when a person believes that they can associate with you and that you're going to be able to connect them with whatever it is that they desire. Right. If they're a client and they want a successful outcome and they see you at the top of the mountain being whatever and whoever you are, they're going to see that and desire that simply because it is successful. And when you become successful, it becomes easier to create more success. That's why the first business was created on the back of 90 hour work weeks and a lot of tears and a lot of panic attacks and a lot of frustration, fear about money. The second business, by the time I had worked all those things out, was created [00:15:24]sitting on my ass [0.7s] in front of the computer, having a very candid conversation with people about what I thought I could do to help them. And miraculously, millions of dollars started to show up and it didn't have any push or any angst or frustration. I haven't had to do a lot of hiring and firing in this job. I have added people. Most of those people are still with me. I love the people that I work with. I love my clients. If I don't love you when I have a sales call your uninvited from our community, it's a very easy process and it grows rapidly because I am growing rapidly. The more of myself that I speak, the more I seek to optimize who I am and the more I seek to create benefit for other people through who I am. The more people see that I'm drawn to that and want it. So it becomes easy for you to get clients. It becomes easy for you to make money, and it becomes easier for you to attract the people who are going to help you to get where you want to go without you having to put in all that frustrating work. Let me teach you and tell you every single thing you need. I mean, 90 percent of the things that happen in my company, I become aware of after the fact. Somebody says we have a problem, let's solve it, and then they tell me about it. Here's the problem. We solved it.
Melanie Barr [00:16:32] [00:16:32]Thank you. [0.3s] That's so great. And [00:16:34]it seems like you [0.5s] you put in the work to become the the business person and the lawyer that you are. But you also did the inner work
Allison Williams [00:16:41] on the inner work. Is everything right? Because all of the strategies, the tips and tricks, the how the marketing, the sales, [00:16:48]like, [0.0s] I definitely teach those things because you do need them. But it took me it took me getting over the fear of being judged by others. [00:16:57]It took me getting over [1.1s] the internal voice that said I'm not good enough or I'm not worthy or people aren't going to like me, [00:17:05]you know? [0.2s] I mean, I had this whole story when I when I decided to start the coaching business, know, I kind of looked out there because I knew a lot of coaches because I had been a client of a coaching company of multiple coaching companies before I decide to do this. And so I started looking at what are their marketing, what is their marketing copy look like? And I was like, oh, my God, every picture is a thin woman in a field with daisies and flowers and talking about. And I was like, that's not who I am. I'm never going to be the girl in the days. Right. I passed the weight limit for girl in the disease a good fifty pounds ago. So I was like, all right, if I'm not going to be that, I need to be something else. And then the other version of it was the guy who was pounding his chest and talking about how he's rich standing in front of his private jet. And I was like, I'm not going to be the private sector either. That's not me either. I love money because I love Louis Vuitton. I don't love private jet. So I was like, I don't want to sell a false dream to people. So the only thing I can really do to sell myself. So I just started doing that, [00:18:06]you know. [0.2s] All right, guys, here I am. You know, I stuck my thumb until I was ten. So my lips are crooked and I have a very big voice and a very big mouth and a lot of personality. And I have a lot of opinions. But when I don't know what I don't know, I will tell you that in a lot of people won't. But I'll be honest with you. And people started saying, wow, there's some truth there. This person is not selling us a good. This person knows what she's talking about. This person can help me. And then I started adding other people who could help my people and it took off. [00:18:36]Right. [0.0s] But it was really easy when I just started. (Like doing the whoOn the whole, this is me and here's who I am and take it or leave it [00:18:43]kind of thing. [0.3s]
Melanie Barr [00:18:44] Yeah, it's so important to be your authentic self and you bring up sales and marketing. You talk about how important niching your business brand is to create scalability. Can you [00:18:55]can you [0.2s] tell us about that?
Allison Williams [00:18:57] Yeah, so I think a lot of lawyers, especially when they first start a business, they are afraid of picking a lane, so they [00:19:04]kind of [0.2s] become the master of the law. Anything that walks through the door so I can help today, I help people that need wills tomorrow. I help people that are accused of crimes. The next day, I help people get divorced. The next day I help people avoid deportation and they just [00:19:19]kind of [0.2s] become the dabbler. And even when they choose maybe two or three areas that I think now there is a level of customization in the practice that most lawyers understand. You can't do everything. So they will start to market two or three or even four things. Right. But it's very generic. It's [00:19:35]kind of [0.1s] like here at John, the law firm, we care about our clients and we help our clients fight the good fight to get the best result possible. And everyone says that [00:19:43]crap [0.0s] right. And there's nothing about that that resonates from one person's website to another. It's just a copy and paste varying varying iterations of the same generic prose. But when you start to speak about whatever it is that you do from a place of why you do it [00:20:02]right, [0.0s] why becomes a super, super powerful message that really cuts through because your wife is very unique to you. But also when you decide that you're going to focus on something within your focus. So you're not just going to do family law, you're going to do custody in highly contested cases involving two or more children. If that's what you're known for, it becomes a lot easier for your people to find you. It also becomes a lot easier for you to repel the people you don't want to work with. And most importantly, it gives you marketability that actually is scalable. So instead of someone saying this is a lawyer that can help me with family law, which means you're just like everybody else, and now I have to interview you and I have to choose whether I like you and I have to decide whether or not you have the right price. And I'm comparing you like we compare watermelons at one grocery store to the farmer's market. Instead, we look at this as, what is it that is your unique gift? What is it that is your special zone of genius. And then when you talk that zone of genius and that's all you're about, anyone who needs your service then says that is the inevitable choice. So instead of I'm trying to sell anything to everyone, you start selling a very specific thing to a very small pool of people, most of whom will come to you and most of whom will then refer their friends and family and neighbors [00:21:25]and next door colleagues [1.6s] to you because you are the choice
Melanie Barr [00:21:30] that's so true. And people know why they should refer someone to you, because you've picked such a specific niche.
Allison Williams [00:21:37] Right. And for a lot of lawyers, the fear becomes if I reach down to small, there won't be enough business that is almost always just a fabrication in the mind. But for the people that truly believe it, I always say, look, starting to small and expanding out is a lot easier than starting to broad and narrowing down. [00:21:55]Right. [0.0s] So I'll give you an example. I always like to use myself as a test dummy because I always give myself universal permission to use myself as an example. So I own a practice that is dedicated to family law. But what I'm most known for in our state is child abuse and neglect, parental representation. And when I started that practice and I started handling those cases, I've never handled those cases through the public defender's office. I've always been paid my hourly rate. So when I started working for three fifteen an hour and now it's six hundred dollars an hour, and every single time that somebody started to hear about, oh, that's all you're doing, or you're going to focus on that, the fear factor came up. What do you think? You're going to have enough cases. And that came from the fact that ninety eight percent of the cases in our state that are brought against the parent or alleged child abuse or neglect in superior court are handled by the public defender's office. That means two percent of the human beings that are in the pool are eligible to have a private attorney or must have a private attorney if they have anyone. So I said, all right, well, I'm going to go out and get that 10 percent. I can't represent the entire two percent. If you add up all the bodies that are accused defendants in in our state into this practice area, I couldn't represent them all if I wanted to. So I got two percent of those people. And then within that two percent certain places that I'm going to go, certain counties I'll be in certain issues, I'll handle. The next thing you know, my roster was full. And then when I started adding additional lawyers, I thought, OK, at some point we're going to take this out. So how do we make it grow? Well, the issue is child abuse and neglect. The issue can be handled in family court. The issue can be handled in criminal court. The issue can be handled in an emergency appeal. The issue can be handled an administrative process. The issue can be handled when someone is not yet in court, when they're just being accused and they're being investigated. So I started to see little tributaries of how I could take something very small and expand it out into something that was rationally related. So you can do this in anything, right? You can take criminal defense and family are going to have a. Drug cases that are involving marijuana. All right, not enough marijuana. I'm going to include marijuana and cocaine, not enough marijuana and cocaine. OK, we're going to do marijuana, cocaine and heroin, or we're going to do crimes involving first time offenders that have marijuana or cocaine, or we're going to handle first time offenders who are over a certain age. Right. 00:24:19 [0.0s] So there's there's lots of different ways that you can start to expand your niche, but you have to start small enough that you can become the expert at that thing. And for most of us, [00:24:28]the real [0.1s] the real challenge is sitting still in the discomfort of not having an immediate overwhelm of people that you can serve because you don't see every human being as a client. You see a very small number of people and you have to get in front of those people and stay in front of those people and pound the pavement there so that you create enough opportunity and enough money that you can then market yourself in those other areas and start to expand the pie.
Melanie Barr [00:24:53] [00:24:53]You are so right and [1.0s] it is so great that you didn't focus on the scarcity. You focused on the abundance.
Allison Williams [00:25:00] Yeah, yeah. And I will say this. I tell people very candidly about what my what my trajectory was. So [00:25:06]a lot of [0.4s] a lot of my clients started their law firms either fresh out of law school or two or three years out. And then their struggle was, OK, I got to find clients. I got to I got to somehow I got to get points. I very candidly did not have the courage to start a law firm in that scenario. In fact, I never wanted to start a law firm. The desire for me to start a law firm didn't really happen until I had gone through a series of metamorphosis, including overcoming depression, including becoming a recovering alcoholic. And then once I had gotten over that hurdle in my life, I looked at myself and started to see myself the way that other people saw me, because people give me compliments all the time. Oh, my God, you're so amazing. And I just never believed, [00:25:46]like [0.0s] I would say thank you. And because it was the obligatory statement, but I honestly did not believe that I had a lot of self-hatred and I could have easily ended my life and that I was doing a service to the world. So at that time in my life, I'd gotten to a place where I was emotionally healed and I had gotten my demons out of my way. And then I had this wonderful life and had a baby. And I said, wow, if I'm going to now be in this world. Right. And at some point in time, I believe God saved my life because I was on the verge of taking my life. I said, if I'm going to have this life, I have to do something with it. [00:26:21]Right. [0.0s] Going to work, collecting a check and going home and being with my friends and doing things socially on the weekends is not fulfilling to me. I feel that I'm meant for something more. I had a really strong calling on my part to believe I was meant for something more. So when I got to that place, then it was all right, if I'm going to have something more, I'm going to have to create for myself because it doesn't exist. We were the first law firm in New Jersey that had the all the overwhelming majority of our cases were child abuse, neglect cases [00:26:51]in the public, [0.4s] in the private sector, where we were paid our full hourly rate for that work. And there was no model for that. So I had to create everything from scratch, not just ask other people how to do this. There was no one else to ask. [00:27:02]Right? [0.0s] So once I created that, it then became a matter of civil law firm. I worked for someone else at the time. Then I said, OK, now I can just go and put it into my own LLC and create that. But the creation process was a lot. It took a lot out of me. It took a lot of time, a lot of energy. It was a labor of love. And it was it was one of the best things I ever did for myself and, frankly, that I ever did for society, if I if I'm candid. But that process took me deciding that I had a purpose, that my purpose had value because it was within me and now I'm going to share with other people. And that had to be the highest priority. And that priority then fueled me to go forward so I could stay up late nights and work those weekends and and do everything that I was required to do.
Melanie Barr [00:27:51] Thank you for sharing that lesson because you were doing so much to help people and to help children and for you to have those feelings. When someone said [00:28:01]you're [0.0s] you're doing wonderful work, I mean, look at how far you've come with the inner and the outer work. Really, truly an inspiration.
Allison Williams [00:28:10] [00:28:10]Yeah. [0.0s] And, you know, the inner work is is not always fun. [00:28:14]You know, (Rich can you please clean up where we talk over each other? Thanks!!![0.5s]
Melanie Barr [00:28:14] it's scary and it's hard. And a lot of it is about when you get past the scary and hard at then becomes mindset.
Allison Williams [00:28:24] Yeah. And the mindset work is something that I still work on. I tell people this all the time. I believe in coaching so much. It's not something that I do. It's not just something that I embody. And that's just something I style. But I have a coach for both of my businesses, for my law firm and for my coaching business. And I have a life coach because there are still things that come up where I think, OK, this is the way I'm thinking about this, is that serving tea 00:28:47 [0.0s] is the way that I'm seeing this really beneficial for me. Is it going to help someone else for me to see it this way or do I need to evolve my thinking and a lot of. I can coach myself out of negative thought patterns, but I don't always see the bigger picture [00:29:00]right, because it's I [1.2s] think about it this way, you know, your eyes look outward. They don't look inward. [00:29:05]Come right. [0.7s] You can hold up a mirror, but the mirror is only going to show you so much. You can't show you every angle. It's not the same as someone walking around you and seeing you from all sides.
Melanie Barr [00:29:15] So true. What gave you the courage to launch William's Law Group and then ultimately the law firm Mentor? What was that moment where you said, I'm going to make this leap and make this happen?
Allison Williams [00:29:30] So I would love to tell you there were some altruistic reason why I started playing with bionics [00:29:35]right up until [0.3s] I 00:29:37 [0.0s] was about one year sober 00:29:39 [0.0s] at that time. [00:29:40]And and so [1.2s] I was starting to [00:29:42]kind of [0.2s] come out of the haze of thinking, very lowly of myself. And I was still in therapy. And [00:29:47]I remember what happened. [1.0s] I actually approached my boss and said, 00:29:51 [0.1s] I'm ready to be a partner. And I called the question very definitively because at that time my boss was in his late sixties and he had hired me to really help to relieve him so he could start working less. Absolutely his right and an amazing career. And he wanted to start slowing down. But I came in and I was so zealous and so aggressively pursuing my own career that pretty soon I had my own clients and I didn't really have time to help them much. But I adored him so I would help him when I could, but I really couldn't be. So 00:30:23 [0.0s] I said to him, we need someone else. And he said, I agree. So I said, All right, well, here's the thing. We already know that you want to work less. You're not going to be training this person. I'm going to be transposon. I'm going to be in their tail. When they get something wrong, I'm going to be taken into court with me and showing them the ropes. I'm going to be reading their work and ripping it up [00:30:39]and reading it again and ripping it up [1.3s] and running it again and ripping it up until they get it right. And that's going to take time and effort. And if I'm going to do that on behalf of your business without additional compensation, I need at minimum to be your partner. And he said, 00:30:53 [0.0s] you're right. You have been a dedicated member of the team now for three and a half years. And I said, is my alcohol history an impediment to this? He said, no, absolutely not. [00:31:05]Right. [0.0s] So thankfully, I never did anything that committed malpractise. And I never harm the interests of the firm in my in my impairment. So I said, well, that's not an issue. What is it? He said, well, I have to go talk to the guys, let me get to other partners. [00:31:21]And [0.0s] I affectionately refer to them as Larry voluntarily. So Larry goes and has the conversation with momentarily behind closed doors. And he comes back to me and says, well, you know, we need to move slowly with this. And I said, what exactly do you need to move slowly? Well, you know, if there are a lot of considerations and he wasn't really giving me an answer, he was just kind of saying things because I think whatever it was that he didn't want to say, he wasn't he wasn't prepared to answer any questions. And I said to him, you know, not for nothing, but it was half a million dollars that comes into this law firm from me, not me advertising, not me paying somebody to build a website. I had nothing other than a homemade blog on WordPress that still had the name of the company that WordPress dot com at the end of it. And people were finding me and hundreds of thousands of dollars were coming in to find me. So I said not for nothing, but I'm generating more work for your business than your partners are and you have to pay for it with me. So tell me what exactly it is that's causing you to pause here. And perhaps I can address that if you tell me is a non. It's never going to happen. I'd appreciate you saying no, no, no. I'm not saying it can't happen. I just have to I have to keep talking to them. And and then it occurred to me [00:32:36]like [0.0s] I went home after that conversation and I said, you know, if these people don't see my value, I, I am not going to try to convince them. I don't want to at this point. After all that I've given, the ipso facto is not there. If you don't see my value by virtue of what you've gotten so far, the answer is simply you don't deserve my value. So very, very clearly, I made the decision. I told my boss, listen, I understand you have a position. You told me that you're still working on it. You work on it. And I had just gotten into the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers, which is a very prestigious national organization that allows only the most elite in matrimonial and family law into the organization. And I've gotten very young and I was the first African-American in our state to get in. So I said to him, you know, here's the thing. At some point I'm going to have to introduce myself at the opening ceremony when I go to this national organization event. And I don't intend to address myself as someone's associate because people don't get into this organization when they're some people get into this organization when they're making laws and changing the world. So I will attend that event. And then he said, OK, well, give me time. Give me time. So anyway, Hurricane Sandy hit New Jersey and we were out for three weeks or so without power and all of that. And I was about to leave. [00:34:02]It was in November for this conference. [1.1s] And he said, well, the conference is coming up. You have everything you need. And I took care of it. I'm all signed up. And he said, all right, well, [00:34:12]you know [0.2s] what's going to happen when you get there? I said, What do you mean? He said, well, you said you don't want to refer to yourself a certain way. And I still have to talk to them. And we had Hurricane Sandy. I said, I told you what I told you. And and I meant it then and I mean it now. I don't intend to call myself someone's associate. Well, what does that mean? I was like, that means exactly what I told you. I don't intend to call myself your associate. And he said, well, [00:34:37]you know, [0.1s] are you leaving? I said, I'm not leaving in this moment. I'm going to the conference, I'll come back. I'm not quitting my job. And he said, OK. And then I came back and a few months later, I quit my job. But yes, you know, it's kind of like, you know, this is it.
Melanie Barr [00:34:52] It's good for you because you trusted your instincts. But it's also interesting how the universe or God [00:34:57]or whatever [0.2s] is going to push us in that right direction if there is something more that we're meant for and we're not making the leap at that moment.
Allison Williams [00:35:07] Well, that's very true. I mean, this time I actually did make the choice two other times, I did not belong somewhere. I got fired. So the universe made the choice, [00:35:14]that same thing. [0.7s]
Melanie Barr [00:35:15] I mean, seriously, I look at that as the same thing. [00:35:18]Like [0.0s] you're meant for something different. If that happens. Something different. Something better.
Allison Williams [00:35:23] Yeah. So that was that was Williams while fermenter was a little bit different. So I had gone through the journey of building the law firm. And I've gotten a law firm to a place where I really did not require me at all. So I tell people now I operate a multi-million dollar company that requires about five hours of my week. The reality is five hours is a stretch and it's averaged over the surge of time. That will be, oh, my God, we have a leadership issue or oh my God, someone doesn't know how to manage something. And I have to step in to give some guidance. But for the most part, I am not necessary to the functioning of this business. I get hit by a bus tomorrow. Clients come in through my salesperson. Clients are serviced by my attorneys. My partner is the manager of my attorneys, my office administrators, the manager of my staff. Money is taken care of by my finance department. I am unnecessary to anything other than being very well compensated to be the leader and the face of this company. And once I had that, I was bored. I can't work, only have five hours of work to do the injury that I
Melanie Barr [00:36:25] love this because my next question was what's your strategy for management? But you just beautifully laid it out for us. [00:36:32]You you found leaders and people to oversee the areas that you need them to, and then you could just make sure all those areas are running smoothly. Now, that's not every day is and I'm sure super easy. [14.4s]
Allison Williams [00:36:47] [00:36:47]Right. But it is at this point, because one of the things that [4.8s] I teach lawyers how to do is I'm very much a proponent of having a system for everything, but not a system whereby you just bring them step by step by step. There's a lot more to it that goes into the process of systematizing a business and creating a systems culture. And once you have a systems culture, you can hire people, import them into that culture, and they start running the business school into a system. So it reduces risk and creates opportunity for growth just inherent in the way that you're being, that you don't have to work to figure out where people's next step is. You don't have to work to get things done. Things are being done automatically. And so once you learn how to create that, the leader of the company, the CEO, does have to leave the leaders. But leading the leaders becomes a matter of. Let's check in on what your report say. Let's make sure you have the resources you need. You have the coaching necessary for you. What are the questions and development areas that you're working on? How are you going to solve the problems that are coming up in your day to day? And if you don't know how to solve this problem, let's have a coaching conversation so I can help you to solve those problems. But I'm not going to snatch it back and solve it for you. That's not my job. Your job is to solve your problems. My job is to support you and be here as you do and to applaud you when you ultimately come up with the answer that I hired you to come up with, because I know that you're capable of that. And so that becomes a matter of I'm at the top, so and I have a layer of people who are right below me. And then we have team members on each of those different department heads to keep things actually getting the work done.
Melanie Barr [00:38:22] And that's why our mentor is so needed so that you can teach all of these things to other people leading their law firms.
Allison Williams [00:38:32] Yeah, [00:38:33]and, you know, [0.6s] and I learn from a lot of different people, this is one thing I did not learn. I learned how to do things myself. I learned how to delegate to people. But the missing link was always taking it beyond delegation to self automatic automaticity. [00:38:51]Right. [0.0s] So so that people have their own role and they see it as their responsibility. And yes, you build in checks and balances because we are a law firm. You do have to you have a responsibility ethically to manage people you don't [00:39:04]like, [0.0s] take your hands off the wheel, but you create the mechanism in a way that people are always growing and developing and every person is looking for their mate and staying in their lane so that everything beautifully works together. And that's where you get the ease and grace that comes with having an office full of people that love each other. I mean, the saddest part of parenting from my office was that everybody hated the idea of not seeing each other. So we had to [00:39:30]not only [0.2s] build in, how do we create our culture and make sure that our culture stays strong by adding things like channels and periodic check and meetings. But like, it really just became like, all right, guys, we're going to have a bi weekly happy hour and you can be happy with your cocktail and you'll be happy with your soda or you can be happy with your kids, but you're going to be happy and we're going to be happy together for just two hours because we like each other. And like it was really important to me to have a workplace of people that I liked and that by people like me and that I'm genuinely concerned about them when we have floods and God forbid, someone's basement gets flooded, I'm genuinely happy to hear that somebody is having a baby or that somebody's puppy is walking or or that somebody is traveling to a new place for the first time. [00:40:16]Right. [0.0s] So those things get to feel my heart joy, which makes it easier to want to be the best leader for them so that I'm always working on myself as a responsibility to my company, but also for the people that I lead.
Melanie Barr [00:40:28] That is so great that you built that culture and I'm sure your employees are so appreciative of it.
Allison Williams [00:40:33] Yeah, and, you know, the one thing I will say is that is one thing that I know that I did exceptionally well because every annual review, we always ask, what is it that you like about your job and what is it that you'd be upset if it had to change? And people always say to people here, every time we bring in there like you, people are so helpful. And I feel like I have like a place to go to ask questions. And I don't feel stupid for asking questions. And the door's always open and it's a very friendly place and everyone's so nice. [00:41:01]And like, there's there's a [1.2s] there's a genuine energy around that. So much so that people are actually surprised when they come. And there's almost like a little PTSD when we take employees from other places. And they're like, you mean I get to go on vacation and you're not going to be upset about that? I was like, OK, you practice family. Oh, please go on vacation or you're going to be miserable to our clients. Go, go, go. And that's something that, [00:41:23]like [0.0s] a lot of people just don't recognize until they come here and are [00:41:26]like [0.0s] this is like Shangri la.
Melanie Barr [00:41:29] [00:41:29]That speaks to the culture that you've created, but it also speaks to the systems that you've developed because it's so much easier to walk into a business where there's systems in place and you're not you're not confused. [10.0s]
Allison Williams [00:41:41] [00:41:41]Right? Well, it's it is great to walk into a place where there are systems. But the one thing I do always emphasizes that we are always changing our systems. We are always in a process of iterating and bettering our best to innovate. Right. And if you get the right people, they are going to be happy to have that right. Nobody likes chaos. If it's chaos, then it's a struggle for people. And you have to really get the high achieving people to come in and help you to bring order to the chaos. But most people want to contribute beyond just doing their job. Most people don't want to live in existence where the reason they exist is to come into a place and be told what to do every moment of the day in order. So you have to create enough space around the role that people get to follow your systems. Yes, do the work that's necessary, but they get to add their secret sauce, their special flavor, whatever it is about them that makes them unique. And their business gets to be better through the ways that they think, the ways that they contribute, the ways that they add value, all of that and creates more of what you've already created. You've already created a strong culture. Your culture grows stronger when the people are contributing because then they're loyal. They don't want to leave. They ignore the calls from the recruiters. I mean, I can't tell you every single one of my employees gets calls from recruiters. They come, they tell me about it, they laugh about it. They're like, oh, yeah, they called again, you know, because, you know, when you have the talent and it's a tight market, everybody is up for grabs. But my people are Grabovo because I treat them well and because they get to contribute something. So they feel like they're a part of something beyond just the paycheck. [92.3s]
Melanie Barr [00:43:14] [00:43:14]Right. Something bigger than themselves. Yeah. [2.5s] Magic happens when we focus on the part of ourselves and our business that brings us joy, what is one tip that you can leave with us today about how you find and live your joy?
Allison Williams [00:43:29] Wow, so that's such a powerful question. I think that I would say that I find and live my joy by seeing the development of the people that I work with. It always gives me a certain level of satisfaction when I can say I created an avenue for someone, they were whoever they were before they found me, but when they came to my environment, they got to flourish. They got to spread their wings. They got to try new things. [00:43:55]They got to lead in there. [1.2s]
Melanie Barr [00:43:57] [00:43:57]They got can you say that lessons again? They get to lead in their lane. I want to cut it out, OK? [6.3s]
Allison Williams [00:44:04] [00:44:04]They get to lead in there. They get to express themselves [2.9s] and they get to contribute. And [00:44:10]I think a lot of places [0.7s] you oftentimes underestimate the power of what you've created until you start hearing other people's perception of it, and not because you don't value your own perception. But of course, you're right because it's your baby. 00:44:23 [0.0s] But when people will say to me, like, oh, this is the first time I've been able to take a project and leave it from tonight or in the coaching business, my new marketing director, she's amazing. And she said to me, all right, I'm going to I'm going to screenshot my calendar every day and send it to us. Why are you going to do that? She's like, well, I want you to know what I'm doing. I was like, I have access to your calendar. If I want to know, I'll look it up like, well, why are you policing yourself for me? And then giving me more work to do to police you just like. [00:44:51]Well, you know, [0.5s] I just I want you to know that I'm doing my job because I'm working virtually. I said if I don't see the copy come out, the emails come out, the social media. I know you're not doing your job. [00:45:01]OK, let me worry about policing you. [2.4s] You just go be fabulous. And if there's an issue there, I'll get to you. Right. And if it's fun watching, [00:45:12]like, [0.0s] the breathing room that people start to experience and the happiness that they have when they get to show up and be themselves. And I don't have to do anything other than benefit from all that they are and then share that benefit with them. It's just it's a better way of living in life.
Melanie Barr [00:45:29] If seeing your employees and your clients happy is what brings you joy. It makes you an incredible leader. [00:45:39]It really does, it does, because people want to stay with you. [3.9s]
Allison Williams [00:45:44] [00:45:44]Yeah, and people want to hear more about other people, so it expands, right? [4.3s]
Melanie Barr [00:45:50] You've built an incredible career and what you were building and offering with law firm Mentor is is so needed. And I'm sure it's appreciated by everyone in your community. Can you share with our listeners how and where they can find you?
Allison Williams [00:46:06] Yeah, absolutely. [00:46:07]So [0.0s] if you want to just learn about law mentor and how we help solo and small firm owners to grow their revenues, crush chaos in business and make more money. You can find out about that on our website. Law firm, mentor, dot net. And if you're interested in creating systems and systems culture, which is what we've been talking about today, we have a very special, absolutely free master class that runs for about a week. It's an hour, a day for about a week where we go deep into how to create this systems culture. And you can find out about that as well from that let forward master class.
Melanie Barr [00:46:41] [00:46:41]I love it. Thank you, Alison. [1.8s]
Allison Williams [00:46:45] [00:46:45]Thank you, Melanie, this has been great. [1.3s]
Melanie Barr [00:46:48] [00:46:48]OK, we're we're we're good. [2.6s]
Allison Williams [00:46:52] [00:46:52]No questions, [0.4s]
Melanie Barr [00:46:53] [00:46:53]I guess I figured you wouldn't I just all of a sudden I thought, oh, I didn't send you the shits, which I've been traveling and I've been traveling for a couple of months and just got back to California. But really, really nice to meet you. And I am so glad that that moment happened for you before court. I mean, it probably wasn't fun at the time, but I don't know how. But seriously, [21.7s]
Allison Williams [00:47:17] [00:47:17]because I was hobbling like a camel on those fields because of that part. [3.4s]
Melanie Barr [00:47:21] [00:47:21]No, no. But that part I mean, for any woman, no, that part was not good. But the rest I mean, so recently, authentic authenticity and being our authentic self and being OK with being who we truly are has come up in so many of my conversations recently. And also how I had more success comes to us when we are our authentic self. I believe in having a serious business conversation, but I believe business doesn't always have to be so serious, like we can enjoy what we're doing and that should be OK. [33.3s]
Allison Williams [00:47:56] [00:47:56]Yeah, and when you enjoy it, it becomes easier. And that's the thing. I think that there's especially for women. Right? I didn't I didn't really go there in the interview, but I think we we struggle a lot with, you know, the way a business is a very masculine and a very male centered way of being. Right. So we we wear certain clothing. The clothing has no personality, no flavor, no player, no color. Like it's a very unique but very distilled uniform. There is a way of speaking. It's a very masculine, very aggressive, very demanding, hierarchical way of being. And there are places for that. There's value to that. But there's also places of value for a more feminine way of being. And I don't think that we have yet, even though more women are coming into public domain and certainly rising in power and creating money, we haven't yet found the balance of that. And I think the balance of that is that lightheartedness is that free and that flow and that ease and grace and all of the things that make us different, but that also balance out the the beauty of life. And I think part of the reason why I've been so successful is that I balance both of them. I laugh with my people. I also know how to be a taskmaster. Right. I know how to be intimidating. I know how to use my voice. I know how to be aggressive. But I also know how to let people cry. And I know how to solicit that from people so that they can get through whatever they're going through so that they can overcome rather than being beaten down. And, you know, there's a place for all of it. [93.4s]
Melanie Barr [00:49:29] [00:49:29]That's so true. I was in corporate for a long time. I worked for AT&T, Marriott Hotels and in the Los Angeles Dodgers, I worked in baseball and I wore just a suit every day that was just a solid color. And I remember I was sitting in a meeting one time and one of my the client I was talking to said, you know, I pulled my hair back in a ponytail every day. And they said, you know, I don't think I've ever seen you have your hair down. And I thought, and you won't because I've taken more seriously look back, you know? And so it's just I love that there's this shift going on where it's let's be our authentic selves. Let's be who we truly are. And it's really fun to see the women that I talked to say they're becoming more successful because of it. When there was this thought, oh, I can't really do that because I won't be as successful. [49.6s]
Allison Williams [00:50:20] [00:50:20]So I really have to say, yeah. I think the beauty of it also is that it's not just benefiting women, it's also benefiting met. Yes. You know, I have four white men on my on my team and they all talk about how much they love our community and how much they love being in space and how it's different than anything they've experienced before. And it's not because we're all holding hands and singing Kumbaya and having rainbows. Right. But it's it's very much a balance between I get to come to work. I get to be analytical, I get to do my job. I get to help people focus on growing their business. I get to laugh, I get to smile, I get to have fun. I get to be left right. I get to be creative. And I get to, like, do that in a space that allows me to be who I am and fit fit in both spaces. Right. I don't have to pick a side or pick a pick a way of being. I get to just be whatever comes out. And that's the beautiful part of it. I think the world is now becoming more accepting of all the people and letting the people be who they are. And that's coming up in gay and transgender rights. That's coming up. An interracial marriage that's coming up in the way that people are choosing to be partner or not partner. It's just it's it's an evolution is is a shift in life. [68.1s]
Melanie Barr [00:51:29] [00:51:29]It's so true. It's also interesting. My my husband's Jewish and I'm Christian and very common. [6.0s]
Allison Williams [00:51:36] [00:51:36]Are you Christian? Are you Catholic? I'm Christian. OK, to say the most common interfaith marriage is actually Jewish. Catholic. [6.3s]
Melanie Barr [00:51:43] [00:51:43]Right, right. But it's interesting, you know, because, you know, you're. Ed, you're not accepted. Well, let's accept everyone for who they are. [8.2s]
Allison Williams [00:51:52] [00:51:52]Yeah, let's do that. [0.8s]
Melanie Barr [00:51:55] [00:51:55]All right. I might yes, I might even put in some of what we just I mean, it was after the recording, but I'm still recording. So so if it makes sense, I might add in some of what you just said. [11.7s]
Allison Williams [00:52:07] [00:52:07]Absolutely. OK, I think I'm very unfiltered, unscripted, and whatever I say is fair game. [6.5s]
Melanie Barr [00:52:15] [00:52:15]I hope you have a wonderful night. Thank you. It's really nice to meet you and talk to you. Hang on. I'm just going to stop recording for one second. The recording has stopped once.