Designing Luxury That Lasts

Speaker 2: I needed something that would vibe with it and you could wear it with your Carti or you could wear it with your beautiful watch or whatever fine jewelry you're wearing. You needed that hair accessory to be able to vibe with it. I wanted to make the most luxurious hair pin that I had ever come across. So, we made it with stainless steel. It had to have plating that could match 18 karat white gold or yellow gold. I didn't invent it. I just made it ultra luxurious.

Speaker 1: I'm Melanie Bar. Welcome back to the She Built It podcast, your go-to place to empower you to live the life and business that you crave. I'm here to talk about everything from having the courage to make life and career leaps to the details of how to lead effectively, create successful teams, implement strategies for growth, and infuse tech innovation. I'm here to celebrate your wins and navigate through your challenges. I live in the city now, but I grew up in a town of a thousand people. I've navigated major life leaps, a senior level corporate career, worked in professional sports, and now as a successful entrepreneur who loves business, technology, family, and making meaningful connections with you and the she built it community. I also love a good workout and dose of self-care.

Speaker 1: Magic happens when we focus on the part of ourselves and our business that brings us joy. So turn up the audio, open your favorite notes app, grab your favorite drink, and here we go.

Speaker 1: Welcome to the Sheila podcast. Thank you for joining us. Dborah, tell us who you are and about your early career

Speaker 2: experiences. I am a mom of three, married for 19 years, founder of Dborah Pagani Beauty. I started working at New York Salon straight out of high school. I didn't go to college. I worked at John Sahog, which was the hottest salon in the late '9s. I was an assistant there. And then I went to Orbe and became a colorist there. I was a celebrity hair colorist. I was one of the best at that time. I did Cindy Looper. I did Prince. I was doing a lot of The Socialites back then. I did that for 14 years. And I was dabbling in jewelry here and there. My clients started buying the jewelry basically right off of me. And I started Dbor Pagani jewelry and that was around

Speaker 1: 2007. I'm guessing the celebrities that you were working with also saw your jewelry and were purchasing your jewelry. And that's sometimes the best way things can happen.

Speaker 2: Yes. There was this R&B artist named Tama who she was so big in like the 2000s. She bought one of my huge dagger earrings and she DM'd me a few months ago and was like, I still wear those earrings. That was 17 years ago. She's still wearing those earrings.

Speaker 1: I love that. And that's so meaningful to you and that you created that relationship.

Speaker 2: Exactly. In all the aspects of my life, like everything I design, I always have this ethos that it needs staying power and it needs to have even if it has a little bit of fashion trendiness to it at that moment, it still is timeless.

Speaker 2: And you'll see that with a lot of my jewelry. Same thing with the hair pins. They really truly are timeless.

Speaker 1: Tell us about your hair pins. How did

Speaker 2: that come to be? I was in Barney's and the buyers were always asking me for more accessible price point and I was not a fan of vermet jewelry, brass jewelry. It just didn't speak to me. And then creating ultra fine dainty pieces weren't my thing either. So I was really toying with doing hair accessories, but I needed those hair accessories again to be timeless. I didn't want something that would take over the jewelry. I needed something that would vibe with it and you could wear it with your Carti or you could wear it with your beautiful watch or whatever fine jewelry you're wearing. You needed that hair accessory to be able to vibe with it. When I started the hair accessory lines, hair obje I did hair pins and I did these hair cuffs and they were elastics around the wrist. Those were really good, but nothing compared to the hair pin. And I wanted to make the most luxurious hair pin that I had ever come across. So it was important for me to have it unbendable. So we made it with stainless steel. It had to have plating that could match 18 karat white gold or yellow gold. And I realized that it was going to be a winner after we were doing the death sides with all the editors when I first launched it. Like everybody was freaking out. And I was like, "But this is a hair pin. This has been around forever." But nobody had ever really used it. They were like, "This is amazing. This is genius." I'm like, "I didn't invent it. I just made it ultra luxurious." That's where the hair pins were born. That was 2019.

Speaker 1: I love that. And for someone who's never seen it, can you tell us about it? And how do you want women to feel when they wear it?

Speaker 2: There's always a learning curve. If you're not used to it, some people say, "Oh, I always used a pen or a pencil all the time." You just have to like anchor and glide. It's less is more. Some people think you need to twist and flip and this and that. You just need to grab a little hair, touch a scalp, and glide it underneath your bun. It's extremely easy. And even ultra fine hair can wear it. Also, I always say as long as you can wrap your hair in a bun, you can use a pen.

Speaker 1: And how do you want women to feel when

Speaker 2: they wear it? I wanted to get away from women being dressed up going out on date night wearing a plastic clip in their hair or wearing a black elastic on their wrist. I wanted them to feel elevated that they can wear something that really elevates the look, doesn't take away, doesn't look sloppy, and just makes you feel altogether put together. And as a twin mom, often, especially in the early days, you're busy, you're running around, you're working, you're with your kids. So, it's nice to have that elevated style.

Speaker 1: Yeah. That's why during co too, everybody was focusing on the neck up.

Speaker 2: And that's when I was showing it, all the eyes were on

Speaker 1: our phones. Nobody could do anything else besides obviously we were doing other things. But during our downtime, everybody was scrolling. And when I was showing that, that's when it really took off. People were like, "Wow, I can add something to my Zoom calls that gives me that little dopamine hit."

Speaker 2: Yeah. I've seen your social and I love how you teach women how to use it and how to put it in. That's so great because you look at it and you think, "Oh, I can do that and I want to wear that the next time I go out." And it's

Speaker 1: something that just lives in your purse on your vanity and when you need to throw your hair up, if you've just pre-washed your hair and blow dry it, and then you put your hair in the pin, I always feel like you can give yourself like heatless waves.

Speaker 2: How has your early career shaped you

Speaker 1: into the business leader you are today?

Speaker 1: As I said, I I don't come from a corporate world. I worked in a service industry. And when you work in a service industry and you work behind a chair intimately with women on a day-to-day basis, you really get to know them. I don't care if you worked in any luxury makeup or clothing. There is something to be said when you are one-on-one staring at someone in a mirror and you develop this relationship. You wind up becoming their therapist, which was pretty scary. If you think about a 20-some year old therapist, but I had women who were in their 40s, 50s telling me about the husbands and about the nannies. Imagine what the Upper East Side what I was hearing on constant basis.

Speaker 1: So, you get to know women at a on a really intimate level. And then when I was designing jewelry, you get to know them in a different way, completely different, but they all have a common thread of making women feel really beautiful, helping them elevate, bringing out the best in them.

Speaker 2: And I'm sure you can show your products to them and get their reaction. So that I'm sure that was a really interesting way to introduce what you were creating.

Speaker 1: Yes. With the jewelry and the hair pin, too. I'm sure you heard what women needed probably over and over. A quick elevated style for a busy lifestyle. Definitely.

Speaker 2: Share with us a business experience that is memorable to you and that you carry with you to today. When I was doing

Speaker 1: jewelry, I wanted to work with a showroom that could help me expand the business into Europe and other countries. One time this woman said to me that I was nothing but a pretty housewife. That really got me. So, I was furious, but I was also really hurt. And that taught me that not every partnership is meant to be. You may want to work with someone. You may think that it's going to take your business another level, but if you are not aligned, they don't get you, and they make you feel like you've got to tone yourself down or you can't be who you are. We have one life. there's always going to be another opportunity. That really taught me we need to try things but we need to also trust our gut. So when it's not meant to be, you need to walk away.

Speaker 1: Really put me in a very dark place. That's when I changed my entire business model. So it was a blessing in the end to tell you the truth. I took a step back. I pulled the jewelry from all the stores. I said, "I'm done with this consignment model. I'm moving it direct to consumer. I'm going to work oneon-one. That's where I started working one-on-one with women and that's where I'm going to take it now.

Speaker 2: I'm sorry that happened to you. And it's so interesting how sometimes our worst moments can become our best moments. I'm sure that pushed you in a direction of where you probably really wanted to go and where you should be. And you're right, a business partner should give you energy and motivate you to do more, not make you feel worse about yourself or your business or hinder the business growth because that will do that if you you don't have that energy behind it.

Speaker 1: Yes. And at the end of the day, sometimes people are doing things for different reasons. I think that they wanted me to do something super expensive, a crazy show or something, and then they threw that out there. Sometimes people will throw these daggers at you. They try to hit your weak spot to make you come around to what they want you to do. And these are just things that come with maturity and just really trying to be true to yourself and authentic.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And also as moms, we might be on the soccer field, but you never know what we're doing in our work life. We might show up on the soccer field in a hat, but we could be doing really incredible things in the business world.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 2: Looking back, what gave you the courage to make your leap to develop your products and do the things you're doing today?

Speaker 1: I really think it was a dose of delusion and passion because to leave a career the way that I did and be like, okay, I'm leaving. I left because I was pregnant with my daughter and it was when the Brazilian straight perm came out and that was filled with formaldahhide and I was freaking out. Nobody talked about this was before clean beauty before it all and I was like you can't tell me that this is not going to have any birth defect smelling formaldahhide all day and the salon was loaded with it.

Speaker 1: Everybody was doing it then I was just like okay that's it I'm starting jewelry. When you do something like that, you have to be a little crazy, a little delusional. If not, then you're never going to leave it. You're just going to say, "All right, I'm going to take my maternity leave and then I'm going back." But I didn't do that. I took a career and was like, "Okay, starting off fresh, clean slate." So, you need a dose of those two.

Speaker 2: And you also trusted your instincts. And as moms, we get this protective instinct. And you knew that those chemicals were probably not right. And

Speaker 1: you trusted your instinct to make that leap to do something different that you knew you could also do in addition to what you'd already done and built.

Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah. So it's interesting when we make those leaps and trust ourselves. It's hard. Sometimes it is. Sometimes you feel like you made the biggest mistake. These are the problems. These are all the obstacles that we face when we are founders and entrepreneurs. You're gonna keep pivoting and pivoting and if you don't then, you know, you're just going to hit a wall. But you constantly have to be able to to pivot. That's one of the common threads that we have.

Speaker 1: So true and it's never ending and that's why it's you got to stay continuous learning at all times when you're an entrepreneur and business owner. What do you like the most about what you do today?

Speaker 2: I love that I don't have a huge team. I don't have any investors and I am able to make these decisions and create things that are not found in the market. A lot of people told me that I was crazy. There's already luxury hair care. I was like, "No, there isn't. I'm talking about a luxury hair care that is at the level of, let's say, a Merit Beauty or a Gucci Westman or a Farah Homidi where you have a fullon experience. I think that if I had a larger team investors to answer to, this would have been a much harder process.

Speaker 2: So, that's one thing that I really love that I'm able to make these types of decisions. I keep it small and tight.

Speaker 1: That's good advice because you might grow more slowly without that, but you also do get to keep your ownership and make it go in the direction that you want it to go.

Speaker 2: Exactly.

Speaker 1: What is your strategy for management for staying on task to accomplish what you set out to do as well as motivating your team and those around you? Motivating

Speaker 2: the team is probably the thing that I do better. I'm a creative. I create fantasy. My husband's always like, "You live in La La Land." I'm like, "Yeah, but that's where creativity comes from." People in the luxury industry, they have to have some sense of fantasy to be able to create what they create. So, I think motivating a team is probably something that I'm better at than staying on task. That's something that I struggle with. I make my lists. I have a very small team. So, my hands are in everything literally from contracts to all of our shoots, all product development, social media. I'm also creating content. So, I keep business Zooms on one day, creative Zooms on another day, any type of in-person meetings on another day, but then creating content in slots. But that's definitely a struggle that I have. And then what I try to do is if I didn't get it done, then I move it on to the next day and I have no problem doing it on Saturday or Sunday. I like that

Speaker 1: advice about creative days versus meeting days because it is hard as a founder and owner to mix the creativity which we have to have with the organization operational business things that a leader has to do. I find I have to block time for creativity. So it's really smart to set a day for more the operational tasks and then a day for just blocking out for creativity. And don't you feel like when you have to get into the creative mode, you have to do something that has nothing to do with being creative, clean off your desk first or organize my purse or something to disconnect me from whatever I was doing before. But I think a big thing comes from maturing and just letting yourself go and try to give yourself some grace and follow what you feel.

Speaker 1: Like those extra 10 minutes are not going to change anything. I used to be like, "No, those 10 minutes I need to finish what I was supposed to be doing. Doesn't matter if I sit and stare at the screen and I have nothing to write." No, it shouldn't be like that. Go take a walk. Go and do something else and you'll be much better. Or meditate.

Speaker 2: That's so true. It's so interesting how a 10-minute meditation can change things in your day. And every, it's funny that you say that, too, because when I'm trying to get creative, I have to take everything off of my desk, too. Because I don't know about you, but my desk is the place where everything lands. And after a while, I'm like, "Okay, I need some organization." And once I get everything off the desk, then my creative mind can come to life. And also going outside or doing something completely different. And you're right, those 10 minutes, sometimes you think, "Oh, I have to be working or doing something." and then you go for a walk or a run and a client says, "Yes, I want to work with you." Something good happens. So, we don't always have to be stuck in those moments. You're so right.

Speaker 1: Definitely. Stop harping on that thought of I got to get that idea. I have to get back to that person. When you stop thinking about it, it'll come to you.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And as a founder to ride those wins. And every time you get a win, I think that's my sign to keep going. That's my sign to keep moving forward. and really finding ways to celebrate those wins. Even if it's I'm going to celebrate this with a coffee, to feel those wins cuz so often we just move on to what's next.

Speaker 2: I know that I do it, too. I always tell women like it's okay to celebrate and buy yourself that little thing. I'm always the worst example for my friends. I'm like, "No, you should definitely get it for yourself. We live one life. It's a little thing." I love buying a little lipstick or accessory. It just has so much more meaning. Yeah.

Speaker 1: How has your business shifted in the last year and what obstacles have you been able to overcome?

Speaker 2: I launched beauty. So that was a completely different angle. The biggest obstacle was developing that. I thought it was going to come as easy as designing a piece of jewelry. And once I was in the middle of it, I was like, "Wow, this is a whole another animal." I wanted to create something from scratch. like I didn't want to create anything

Speaker 1: that I had already used on the market and I am a consumer. I love luxury makeup, luxury hair products. I wanted to create something that I had never used before. So creating something from scratch when you're not coming from that industry is a whole another animal. I didn't realize that there would be so much back and forth with the ownership of my design of the bottle tooling prices and working with different chemists. I have two products but I worked with two completely different labs. I really nitpicked everything and understanding that it takes so many years. We started talking in January and I was asking them if we could launch by spring. The products came out two years later.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that just means you have excellent products though with putting in that much time and effort and energy.

Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that comes with age also. When I was younger, I was much quicker. All right, let's try it. If it's not perfect, I'm not putting it out there. I'm just not I'll wait.

Speaker 2: You're putting Yeah. And you're putting your name on it, too. So, when you put it out there, you want it to be right. Completely understand that. Magic happens when we focus on the part of ourselves and our business that brings us joy. We talked a lot about business today. What is one thing that you do to make sure that you're finding and living

Speaker 1: your joy? I'm a creative. When I'm creating, that is where my joy comes from. Whether it's product development, whether it's the packaging, even the box that the products came in, designing jewelry, I love doing it.

Speaker 1: Even if it's just a piece for me or I'm working on a client's custom ring, that's where my joy is. And it even comes into the house. I moved from Manhattan. I was living in an apartment and now I live in a house. So being able to start getting into gardening, which I had never done before. Now I'm into that. So it's every level when I'm doing if I'm able to be creative, I'm very happy. The only thing is like I never got into being creative in the kitchen. I don't know why. It never gave me that excitement. I'm not really sure why, but landscaping, doing flower arranging, curating a coffee table, like these were things like now that I'm not living in an apartment anymore, I'm able to do.

Speaker 1: These are like the little joys that kept me so excited. Like collecting vintage vases now. Who would have ever thought I would be into that?

Speaker 2: That's nice. And you probably have so much more space now in your home. And now you can go outside and be in the nature.

Speaker 1: Yes.

Speaker 2: I think nature always brings us back and I am with you on the kitchen. My husband actually took to cooking during co because he was so bored. Never cooked before. Then now he's become a pretty good chef.

Speaker 1: Oh, really? You're welcome. Yes. Yeah. I'm not complaining for sure. Yeah. Sometimes I'll do like a cake or something because I can decorate it, but it's like with the cooking itself I'm like, "Oh my god." And then the cleaning afterwards. Was this supposed to be fun?

Speaker 1: I don't really know. It started with my husband because we went out for a steak and he challenged himself to make a restaurant quality steak at home and that became a challenge for him. So that was a fun part of it too. It's a little bit like meditation for him because it's outside of anything he does normally and it's the challenge like how can I make this as well as the chef. That's a different type of creativity. Maybe I can find a way to make a beautiful salad with different colors or something. I'm not sure. But I would love it to trickle down into the kitchen, but it hasn't happened yet.

Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe someday.

Speaker 1: I also think that I would always get so frustrated with myself that things are not going fast enough. I went to a seminar with David Gam. He's a Cabala teacher and he said something that really resonated with me. The creator is putting us in our soul's path. Something in that manner. And I was like, okay, that's it. I need to just let that sit, marinate, and understand that I am exactly where I need to be. And I think the more we say that to ourselves, especially women who are in business, who are mothers, we need to cut ourselves some slack. You can't be everywhere and be everything to everyone at the same time.

Speaker 2: I just said to someone the other day that something wasn't happening as quickly as I wanted it to. A lot of people listening can relate to what you just said.

Speaker 2: At the end of the day, we have to put things out into the world that we love. And if it takes time, we've got to trust the process. And that took me a long time to understand. And now, you know, my daughter's off to college next year. My boys live and breathe soccer. They don't need me as much. Now is the time where I'm ready to pour myself even extra energy into a business. I feel like this is just the beginning.

Speaker 1: Exactly. Now is your time.

Speaker 2: Yes. Thank you so much for joining us today. We can't wait to try your hair clip and your jewelry. It's beautiful. I can see the jewelry you're wearing. Please share with us how and where we can find you.

Speaker 1: And thank you for the reminder today that we are exactly where we need to be. You can find me Instagram handle Dborah Pagani. Also the Dborah Pagani beauty Instagram handle. Also on Tik Tok Dbor Pagani Beauty.

Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us today. I'd love to hear from you. Reach out to me at hell@shiltiltit.com on our shebiltit website or at sheiltit on social. Thank you to my editor Rich Dalino who always makes us sound good. Until next time, let nothing stop you from experiencing the life and business that you crave.