Intuition = Growth + Success

Speaker 1: [Music] hi I'm Melanie bar welcome to the she builted experience with Melanie you're here because you want to experience the life and business that you crave join me as I talk to women who have successfully built it a career and business that they love we dive into the topic of how they built it and talk about everything from Having the courage to make career leaps to the details of how to lead effectively create successful teams Implement strategies for growth and Infuse Tech innovation magic happens when we focus on the part of ourselves and our business that brings us joy so let's dive in Deb Smith is the co-founder and CEO of the center cap group the only female founded Boutique Investment Bank solely focused on real estate she's responsible for the firm's business operations and activities and heads the firm's strategic Consulting and m&a execution practices the principles of ccg have over 400 billion in transactions throughout their career in both public and private markets thank you for joining us today Deb you are the co-founder and CEO of the center cap group we cannot wait to learn more but first tell us more about who you are and your early career path thanks for having me it's great to meet you I grew up in Australia on a dairy farm I thought I was probably going to be a tax attorney at some point towards the back end of my high school prior to meeting a fantastic teacher my economics teacher when I was in grade 11 I don't think I ever contemplated even going to college it was just not something that der farming children did and so I'm the one of my many many many first cousins uh and my family to go to college and I think it was certainly different than what anybody else in my family had contemplated so it was a long list of births that have gone on since then I end up going into an investment banking out of college and it was the only bank that I had put in for and I was very fortunate to get a job with Morgan Stanley in Australia and then I was transferred over to the United States and I've been here ever since I was a loner from the Australian office and and I stayed and I love it I think I'm one a few people outside of my two business partners that is still doing what we did when we finished College we're all investment bankers and we all still do investment banking and it's probably more fun now that I've been doing it for 25 years than when I first started and I didn't know a lot and for people who looking into a career in finance and it seems really scary and and in some ways it is but once you get into it if you like to learn you like to be challenged it's amazing and and I did that for many years before I branched out with my current business partners now and we now have our own farm so that's what got us where we are today do you think that growing up on a dairy farm taught you business and it's interesting because I had a previous guest last week she is helping tobacco farmers changed to more organic and sustainable food and so she hopes that we can introduce farming as a more viable career I'm curious if it taught you some business lessons before you made the leap to college in the US yeah it's it's a good question I look back and as a dam farming child everyone has a job from very early on which is different than the concept of today grades and GPA and college scores and where I grew up nobody cared about any of that stuff I mean I up until I went off to college I got out of bed at 5: a.m every morning I had to I raised all the cars on our farms and I was responsible and I had a job and I'd come home from school and it'd be the same thing I had to lived hay bales and drive tractors my first vehicle I drove was a tractor um and a stick Shi no less but from a very early age we and all of my siblings were were raised to do multiple things at the same time and so we didn't have the convenience to just do one thing we grew all of our own food and so we did live off the land quite a bit and I guess I look back there is a skill to that so while some others may have been focusing on grades I was focused on working and I did that all the way through high school I had to work and then when I went to college I maintained three jobs at a time to put myself through college and I don't think I ever thought it would be any different the other thing is we have to complete everything with start you you don't get the you don't get the luxury of doing half a job you have to do the whole job or no job and you have responsibilities and so you learn very early that this has to be done and this is your job and what you what you have to get all this stuff done before you go to school and that's the way it is and so when you're raised with a very Hands-On mentality I do think it impacts the way you look at things and I think those combinations of things together now you know I have kids I'm married I sit on boards I do volun te work I'm involved in the kids schools and yet I have two wonderful business partners and we run an investment bank I don't spend a whole lot of time saying is that normal it just is it's just the way our life is and do you think that work at that gave you a sense of confidence I think I just don't think about it I just do it and so I don't spend a lot of time wondering if I can or can't do it I just do it and so once I have something in front of me even if it's something new there is no concept that I cannot I can't achieve something it's more con what do I need to do to get this done and similarly when we started up The Firm and through my entire career I've never stood back and thought well am I good enough am I qualified enough do I I just don't think in terms of those metrics I just thinking well this is what I want to do say how am I gonna do that that's the story of my life how am I gonna do that um and so I'm constantly thinking what I need to do to get from A to B and and I don't spend a whole lot of time thinking about whether I should even be be in the first place and and I think with that mentality it's contagious be because and maybe that's a confidence that I I don't appreciate but I think if when you take that perspective others around you will go with you right if if you don't get give them an in or to think it's any different then then I tend to find people will move along in the direction you're going and I'm sure when you get to be it feels good because you have used that Curiosity to figure out how to do it and accomplish what you set out to do yeah regardless of the task I take enormous enjoyment in completing it and whether it's cleaning my kitchen or washing a floor or getting the kids ready for school or whether it's completing a huge deal or I do a lot of writing I publish a lot of Articles it doesn't matter what it is I take enormous enjoyment and pride in a job well done and and so it's the continual inspiration I think that's what ends up tying in with wanting to get from A to B is I just focus on the B and what do I need to do to get a job well done timing a little luck some smarts um has helped me figure out how to navigate through life to get to where I am the center cap group is a boutique Investment Bank providing strategic advisory Capital raising and Consulting related services to private and public sector companies and has been involved in more than 400 billion of m&a and Capital Market transactions share with us more about what you do and what you like the most about it ccg which we call it ccg we are all things real estate which I think is our Mantra and we tend to hold on to it pretty tightly we have not gone our focus on the real estate industry since we started the firm and so we've held to be an industry expert around either doing corporate m&a which is strategic advice to whether it's REITs operating companies investment managers and helping them think how to grow so if you say well I want to buy something or I want to solve a succession planning issue or I'm trying to figure out what my investors think about me or how do I go about Capital raising those kind of questions uh we deal with and then we can follow through on the transaction we also have a capital raising business that raises capital for uh mainly for one-off deals some programmatic Vehicles so if you want to acquire a portfolio of properties or truck stops or Office Buildings or senior housing we help find capital for those and then we have a Consulting business it's strategic advice and so it is really focused on either repositioning companies it's helping you get um public company Readiness we do fness opinions valuation advice out of that business line and each one of those business lines we have grown at different times depending on where the market is so when we started the firman 09 it was much more Capital raising because that's where the market was but over time that's rotated now uh we think we're one of the top tier advisors to the investment management space in the real estate sector and so we do a lot of buying and selling of investment managers um advising on those transactions as well as Consulting with them and so to together and then the Consulting business we've built that out over the past few years in response to a need we realized that there were a lot of managers in our space who just needed strategic advice there was no deal involved you know growing up as an m&a Banker it's you know if you're not a buyer you're a seller but there is actually a segment of the market that is neither one of those things so we we do Consulting as the third element and we've really grown out that business which helps balance out some of the mixs and that business I tend to run myself I I love it it is so much fun going in and meeting new companies dissecting them figure out what makes them great and then how to grow them and to give them some recommendations and advice it is a lot of fun I love to do it because no two companies are the same and it's actually really interesting how many companies we meet that don't know their own strengths from an Investor's standpoint if you were looking in or we've come up with a list of things that are just different and they just don't even think about it makes a lot of fun so that's the part I I I I absolutely love to do that that's true because sometimes when you're in the everyday life you don't see those strengths and sometimes someone from an outside perspective can see things that maybe you don't yeah and I think that's right we've been exposed to hundreds of managers over time and no two are the same but it often astounds me that when I can look at someone's deck and how they position themselves I'm like these guys are incredible investors they've made a lot of money and yet this deck it needs work needs a lot of work that is the fun part and for us the challenge always is is how can I make this company look special so it doesn't look like the other 50 companies I've worked with how do I create a whole new marketing pitch a whole new strateg how can I position them to raise you know like for example Capital to buy multif Family Properties how can I make them look different than the next guy who does that there's hundreds and hundreds of managers that do it so and and that is part of the the whole experience that I guess you get when you've been doing it for a long time is that you can borrow ideas and then ideas build and build and build you come up the end product looks nothing like you know the foundational pieces that you originally were thinking about when you got started down in the process that's the fun part and that's such a fun way of looking at it you have been named an industry trendsetter who provides solutions to clients in Overlook sectors like cold storage and Logistics that have become a huge success since covid share with us more about this and how you saw the advantage for the Overlook sectors we publish ccg perspectives and it's usually driven by a trend or something we've seen in the market or something we see coming down the pike in the future sometimes we're ahead of ourselves and the Market's just not there yet but it eventually gets there even before I just chat about logistics and Cold Storage the multif family space I remember 10 years ago when we were first talking about amenitized apartments and people having smaller footprints for an apartment and that people don't want huge Apartments they will trade a smaller space if they can get pool rooms and pools and bike racks and car spaces and all these other amenities along with their property and that concept was new and and as a result we really struggled to get people to buy into it as an idea and now that's the standard that's how apartments are built today and so the world has moved along in that regard and and on that too I think the next train coming out and I will probably be writing about it relatively soon so you're hearing it first is on the senior living space we have a massive housing shortage for seniors there's probably going to be 85 million seniors coming in the next 10 20 years and we need to house them people have always focused on affordable housing and that is very well covered I think the the really cool part of it is to look at active adult living which is almost like retirement type Villages they don't want to own their own house but they want to do more than just play pickle ball too and and so thinking around that that product I think is really cool and it's something that's coming and we're now starting to see a lot more people talk talking about it and it'll be interesting to see where that goes but it's something that I know I'm excited about to see that segment of the market and then just coming back to your first one Logistics and Cold Storage once Co come online it's really pushed e-commerce and and I've written about this many times e-commerce and and getting exposure to the Internet it's people did online shopping sporadically what happened with Co is it institutionalized everybody does it and whether you're doing curbside pickup or you now you you were an online Shopper and now you do a lot more I think the reality is the consumer of today is focused on convenience number one thing convenience now if I tell you that it's convenient whether you do curbside or whether you get delivery it's like how do I get it to you know UPS had done a survey not long ago where something like 65% of online Shoppers who order before lunchtime expect it the same day and it's like 75% expect it the next day they order the day before these stats are crazy think through the logistics of getting something to you that is made in or right how does that stuff get to you in such a short period of time and I think the logistics around solving big warehouses um those concepts are fine but we need to redefine how industrial Works Office Works Logistics works all of these things Works in response to that people will return to stores right I don't think people are going to give up their convenience now they've got it they're just not going to do it and so then the question is well how am I going to get you what you want and so I think the concept of Last Mile Logistics is now important which is instead of dealing with the big Amazon warehouse in the middle of nowhere and then caring it to to a regional distribution now we're talking about converting maybe car Parks backer stores dark shopping centers turning them into Logistics Hub that'll last Mile and using those spes to store product to get it to you when you want it same day or when you want it next day and there the logistics challenge in that but that will redefine how the entire industrial Market works now of course what plays into that is cold storage a because we don't have enough of it we're woefully insufficient in the United States but if you want your blueberries delivered to how are you going to get your blueberries and so it's not only that it's Pharmaceuticals it's biotch drugs all these things require Cold Storage and people's Focus where you were talking before about farming and people wanting fresh food but they want it even if you're ordering online I still want it and so you expect the expectations around that have dramatically changed as a result through Co that I think some of these Trends are not going backwards and then how you solve for that and then the technology obviously comes in because if you have a last mile dark shopping center that's spilling orders for blueberries Ka knows whose blueberries belong to who just the technology and the logistics to around these things the millions of products it's how you deal with that there's an evolution that going to roll through our industry and that issue of convenience is going to hit every single segment so true so much goes into it such a complex problem to figure out and I'm smiling because I am one of those people if I order before noon I'd like it to show up same day even going to Walgreens or CVS you can now get those things delivered so of course the other day I thought hm should I just pop out and do it but no I do it we really are going in that direction where we want everything delivered if it's possible so you're so right and I absolutely do it I order from Walgreens from Target from what from every store I order out my fingertips and I've gotten really bad it could just be one thing and I just don't have time I'm smiling because I have the same thoughts and I know a lot of our listeners who are working and juggling very busy lifestyles are nodding their heads think about that next time you get something delivered what it took to get it to you and and the amount of people and the amount of real estate and logistical footwork that took for you to get that product when you just click a button yeah and it's remarkable what this country's been able to achieve in adjusting to these thingss and we've got some ways to go and the industry is still evolving but one thing I'll say about real estate chaos is great for real estate markets if it's not credit driven if it's not lending driven because it just means opportunity when there's chaos there are winners and losers and real estate people we think we're all smart enough to figure out where the opportunities are when you have change like this that Real Estate Investors love it because now we've got the whole industry of the industrial real estate sector is going through so much change it just means it's enormous opportunity to make something happen in it and you you can go through every one of the sectors and you'll get a similar answer where there's investors there who willing to take risk and take a bet on themselves um that they know what to do and they will figure it out and that's how the industry keeps going round and round and around so exciting with all of the transactions that you have facilitated you have experienced incredible success share with us one of your favorite client or customer success stories I'll put a few in the same category we have been very fortunate as a firm that a lot of that business has either been repeat clients or referrals we take a lot of pride in that that we feel that we're a banking train people can trust and that we get really involved with our clients we know a lot about them and we talk to them an awful lot and so some of our clients we've had almost as long as we've been investors and the really great thing about it is we've had clients where we started off with one tiny Capital raise just for a little property they went on to go on to a bigger Capital raise they went on to go to multiple Capital raises then it went on to selling the company through finding a strategic partner and we've roundt Tri them and so now some of those clients are like what are we going to do next we need to go buy something else and when you've worked with the same client for 10 years it is so great because their relationship is so strong and it's really built on trust and you can have a very open dialogue with them you get to be candid as of the benefits of long-term clients and the crazy thing is we have a lot of those clients we have a few of them and and those clients go and refer other clients to us and so it goes round and round and and that's part of the fun I think of what we end up doing is we have amazing clients who've been with us for a really long time and this business is very competitive and that's great for the clients too because then you know their personalities you start to know their wants and it's much easier for the ient too yeah I think that's right the clients know different people across the firm and my partners and I are very very different as people we bring different strengths to the table and what's really great is our clients get to see you know depending on what they're looking for they have access to the three of us and get something different depending on who it is and the beautiful thing about it is unlike where I think had other firms that are transaction oriented yes but they also tend to be focused on themselves it's it's what you K and the three of us is all for one and one for all so I do well if my cornerstones are doing well and if if they're not doing well then I don't do well either and so it's it's all for one you raise kids and credit your success to having a supportive partner at home and as you just mentioned supportive partners in business for anyone with a busy lifestyle and as a mother of young twins I know firsthand how difficult it can be navigating it all share with us how you were able to continue your growth and make it work yeah good question someone said something to me very early in my career and it it has stuck with me although I didn't appreciate at the time because I was neither married nor did I have any children and in a quiet moment it was actually another woman too had said to me you know what Deb as you go on in your career don't ever second guess the decisions you make don't do it once you make a decision you move on if you don't it will eat you alive and given the volume and for any woman who's a busy mom and have kids I offer the same advice you know we have great women's intuition go with it right don't second guess it if what your first reaction is to do something you just go ahead and you do it because and if something goes sideways you'll figure it out trust yourself you figure it out why you don't have time I do not have the time to keep making the same decisions over and over again if you actually ask any of my children I have four if you ask any of my kids they will tell you mom's most common words are didn't we already talk about this why why are we still talking about this didn't we already make a decision the decision was made I really do believe that because the amount of things that come across my schedule in a day from all the different you know factions that I have to deal with I don't have the time so give me the facts I will make a decision and I move on and and that's how I I live my life and I think it's good advice for anyone not only as a woman but anyone who's got a lot of stuff going on it's great advice and not only that you'll be infinitely much more happier because if you don't second guess your decisions you give yourself an app so true you right you deserve to be happy don't second guess it assume you're right and you know what if something go sideways in the future okay you'll figure it out I hold that very firmly and I think it gets me it saved my bacon more times than I care to think right because otherwise I couldn't get through my volume in a day there's no way it's so true because every time I don't trust my intuition I regret it women really do have great judgment and I don't want to get too much on a agenda point but I I think women have really great judgment and we do ourselves a disservice by not trusting it enough we have a tendency to second guess and you don't need to do that trust your gut instinct it's usually right and if it's not you're good enough and you're smart enough you will figure it out because that's what we do right we just figure stuff out and and I think you know we more of us need to go with that and and I can say my partners are the same as me and that's how cuz we all have kids and and that's how we get through our regular days is just being very deliberate but making judgment calls making judgment calls and sticking to them and and believing that it's the right course of action to take magic happens when we focus on the part of ourselves and our business that brings us joy I love to ask this at the end of every episode because I believe Joy is so important to bring into our daily lives what is one way that you make sure to find and live your joy so from a personal perspective it comes with that never look back thing is when we have wins we should enjoy them even if you've moved the goal post right I just had a conversation with my daughter a week or so ago who' finally achieved all of her goals as a swimmer and I said to her look this is great you've achieved your goal she goes no it's not Mom because I didn't achieve this other goal I said that was that didn't exist last week she goes well I already set new ones I said you can set new goals and you can set them high but you got to cut yourself some slack if you don't reach them but you always have to remember to smell the roses right enjoy those little moments when you've had successes even if they're small right has you know it's you deserve it everyone deserves to be happy and so I think that's one way of doing it but I think from a career perspective I always say look find something that makes you happy find a passion it doesn't matter what it is find a passion work really really hard at it make a difference and then you get to call whatever you're doing a career and it really doesn't get much better than that I wake up every day and I love what I do and I never feel like oh my gosh what am I going to do today I I don't have that I get up I'm excited to do what I'm doing but I have a long list and it's like how am I going to get through this list today and I just start at the top and I plow on through and at the end of my days I'm like wow I got a lot done today um I always think that I got a lot done today but that sense of accomplishment and enjoying the hitting of my goals that I've set gives me enormous Joy it really does regardless of them and I just think whatever that is that's my passion whatever makes people happy you have a right to be happy so pursue it you only get one shot this one second melan is here and it's gone and you don't get it back and so you got to enjoy it while it's here because they're not going to last forever so true because so often we accomplish something and we move on to the next thing without really feeling it and sometimes I even say okay this cup of tea even that small little moment can motivate you for the next yeah you got to enjoy it because and that's the problem when you're particularly when you're high achiever and you're doing a lot you have a lot going on we have a tendency to focus on what's next and when you're goal oriented we all do it um and I think even if it's for a minute even if it's for a minutes say you know what I really did good on it all wow that's really awesome but but just to a just for a minute because you've earned it right because if you don't do that um you'll be perpetually unhappy and dissatisfied because you're always chasing the next goal and by the time you get it you've already moved the goal post and if you keep moving the goal post you can never reach it and and so I was result you've got to take it back and those goals are great you should always have them but just each little success each little Milestone yeah you deserve a little pat on the back because you w done so true you have experienced so much success I have loved every minute of talking to you today please share with us how and where we can find you sure Center capg group.com and we're also on LinkedIn and I'm on LinkedIn I'm happy to connect if you are new to sheu it we'd love for you to join us we offer Community memberships masterminds Innovative virtual events and meaningful connections to entrepreneurs and corporate leaders please also check out our sheb built it shop curated products from women-owned businesses who put their heart and soul into their beautiful and Innovative products we offer Sheil it business Consulting and the Sheil it blog thank you to everyone around the world who joined today thank you to my editor Rich stalino please download And subscribe wherever you get your p cast and until next time together let's let nothing stop us from experiencing the life that We crave