Lead with Your Full Voice

Speaker 1: [Music] You have to remember that the people are integral to everything. So you take care of the people and the people will take care of your business. If you've gotten to the point where you have clarity around your vision, if you have infused that throughout the organization and brought on the right people and you're all rowing in the same direction, you're going to have unlimited success because everyone is doing the same job. Everyone is going after the same goal. I'm Melanie Bar. Welcome back to the Sheila Tip podcast, your go-to place to empower you to live the life and business that you crave. I'm here to talk about everything from having the courage to make life and career leaps to the details of how to lead effectively, create successful teams, implement strategies for growth, and infuse tech innovation. I'm here to celebrate your wins and navigate through your challenges. I live in the city now, but I grew up in a town of a thousand people. I've navigated major life leaps. a senior level corporate career, worked in professional sports, and now as a successful entrepreneur who loves business, technology, family, and making meaningful connections with you and the She Built It Community. I also love a good workout and dose of self-care.

Speaker 1: Magic happens when we focus on the part of ourselves and our business that brings us joy. So, turn up the audio, open your favorite notes app, grab your favorite drink, and here we go. Welcome to the Sheet Tip podcast.

Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us, Vicki. Share with us who you are and what led you to create your business. Absolutely. Thank you so much for the invitation. I'm thrilled to be here. I am an accidental entrepreneur. I was working in corporate in human resources for years and years. The last position that I had on the quote unquote inside was with a technology company that specialized in financial services. That was back in 2001. And I don't know if you remember, but that was a tech bubble that burst in 2001. And we got caught in that bubble.

Speaker 1: So the company closed after 3 years. And the president of the company said to me, I think you did HR in an amazing way and you should think about offering that as a service. You should open your own company. And I said, "My goodness, I'm so flattered. I love that. Absolutely not. I'm going to go get a job." And he was like, "Okay, that's fine." And by April, he reached out and said that he had a kind of a new gig. He'd been tapped to be CEO of another company and they were small and growing and most of the employees were located in New York.

Speaker 1: He's in California and I'm in California and he was like, I'm not moving, but I know there's something that needs to happen as far as human resources is concerned because you taught me that. So, there's something about payroll or handbooks or something and I need you to take care of that for me. We're a small growing company. can't pay you your full salary. Can you come on as a contractor and just do projects for me? And of course, being an HR compliance dweeb, I made sure that it met the independent contractor guidelines. And then I started doing little bits and pieces for him here and there. From April of 2001 till August of 2001, he kept increasing what he was having me do. And finally by August, I was like, I'm handling confidential employee information and you and I should have a contract and I need a corporate veil and everybody needs insurance. I'm going to incorporate. And he said, good. It's about time. That's what I was waiting for. So that was his evil plan all along. They became our first client and they were with us for almost 10 years.

Speaker 1: It absolutely was not something that I anticipated. I was not aspiring to be a business owner or a founder. I'm a great number two. I sit on the shoulder of the CEO and whisper in their ear and ask them if they thought about this or thought about that and I'm their kind of confidant as the chief HR officer. And so that was the role that I had and that I enjoyed and that to my mind I was good at. And that was the the pinnacle of the career aspiration that I had. And then he did this thing and I stepped into it and it's been the most terrifying and most fun and most fulfilling thing I've ever done. That's so great. And it's so great that it happens so organically and you seem to truly love what you do. I really do. And when I think about my personal story, I tell my colleagues and friends and clients who are business owners and founders that it's really important to look at your team and if you see something in someone, cultivate it. Because that's the reason I'm here because he saw something I couldn't see.

Speaker 1: And that happens a lot when you're working with high performers. you see some special talent in them that maybe they don't see or you see a path for them that maybe they haven't thought about. Give them an opportunity. Give them a little push and cultivate that for them. That's so true. What do you think is the most important element of building a sustainable company culture?

Speaker 1: Culture is the thing that hangs everybody up. What I say to entrepreneurs is you're not building the culture. you are bringing on team members and they're going to build a culture because culture is what happens day in day out. It's do you uphold your word? Are you on time? Do you act with integrity? And then does your team model those behaviors? Do you put the client first? It's all of those things that you do day in and day out. You can have a great culture statement and put it on a wall and talk to people about it all the time, but if it's not baked into the actions, then that's not your company culture. And you as the business leader, you can't push the rock up the hill and try to create culture. You can reinforce it. You can set an example, but it's really in the people you bring in and how you interact with them every day and how they interact with your clients. And yes, that certainly means you'll do some training. You'll reinforce what you feel the company stands for. You will appropriately reward the right behavior and correct behavior that you think is inappropriate. But culture is organic. It's going to flow up from the people that are in the organization. That's so true. I love that you say that your team builds the culture because that's really how it happens. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Speaker 1: So they can build it and they can break it.

People-related mistakes

Speaker 1: Yes. What's one people related mistake you wish every entrepreneur would stop making and what should they do instead? I think it is easy to talk yourself out of having some challenging conversations. When you have someone who is not quite meeting expectations, particularly if they're a high performer in other areas or even an adequate performer in other areas. Very often people tend to say, "Vicki is really great at X, Y, and Z. She doesn't show up to work on time, but she's really great at those other things, so I'm just going to see how it goes. And what inevitably happens is that habit takes hold. It grows. By the way, other people are also seeing that habit, so it's affecting culture, by the way. And finally, you're fed up or furious because you really needed something. She wasn't there on time. And then you just typically clients will call and say, "I want to fire Vicki." We haven't had conversations with Vicki. You haven't told her what the problem is or given her an opportunity to correct it. And now you might be in a challenging employment law situation by just firing her. And it's very expensive to let someone go and bring someone new in and all of those things. So, it really does behoove you as the leader to have the tough conversations. Be very clear with people if they're not meeting your expectations and whether they are an average performer or even a high performer. High performers become even better when you give them clear guidelines and let them know where they might be turning left when you need them to turn right. Those conversations are difficult and we don't love them, but they are absolutely valuable. The other thing that does is it puts everybody on a level playing field. So the rest of your team then knows that no matter who you are in the organization, everyone is held to the same standard. So it's really important. There's a there's an adage of higher slow, fire fast, and this is probably some version of that.

Speaker 1: But I would say make sure you're giving people the tools and the feedback and the environment to correct whatever that behavior is. Help them along. And then if they don't correct it, then yes, you have to take action. That's such good advice. And communication is so important always. Always. That's one of the biggest challenges that people have because you're just going along trying to build your business and bring in more clients and you want your team to be happy. You want everybody to be happy and do a great job. And the people side, dealing with conflict on the people side is messy and it feels sometimes unstructured and it feels difficult and it's a break in your day and it's a break in what your task list is. And so it just is not a comfortable thing to do. And that's a muscle that as leaders we absolutely have to build. And to your point, sometimes leaders can say, "Oh, I'll just wait for them to leave." And they're good at those certain things. Or they can be worried about not having someone in that role. But whenever someone new comes in, I always find a new energy. So you can't have that fear of someone leaving, which can happen sometimes. Oh, absolutely. It totally happens. And you're absolutely right.

Speaker 1: It's an opportunity. If you really have someone who is not meeting expectations and you're going to bring in someone new, you're right. You have a fresh perspective, fresh experience, fresh interaction. Every single time you add someone to the team or subtract someone from the team, it changes the dynamic of the team. That's just the way it goes. And so, you have to look at it as an opportunity to bring in a fresh perspective, a fresh personality. And if you don't do that and you keep the person or you don't address the person who's having the challenges, that starts slowly but surely poisoning the team and that will affect your culture very quickly. And I always think about training a new team member too. If a senior leader is leaving, who is going to train that new person that comes in? Because you want those good habits.

Speaker 1: Exactly. I'm an HR person, so of course I love SOPs and training courses and all of that sort of thing, but I think it is important to be clear about what the expectations are and to have tools, whether they're workflows or standard operating procedures, to have those in place because the nuts and bolts of how you get the job done, you need to have clarity around that and then you can add on kind of the flavor. Then people can bring in their own experiences and their own ideas once they have a solid base under them. We're talking about giving folks tools to develop and to do a great job for you. You can't just bring someone in and say just shadow her and that's your training. That's what they did back in the dark ages when I started. And while certainly it has some benefit, but that can't be all of the training. It really is beneficial for you and for the organization to have a standard set of operating procedures for all of the positions in your company so that you know when you know we create widget A, it goes into widget B and that happens every time the same way every time and that then builds consistency for your clients as well. Yes. And I'm a big fan of SOPs, too. If someone leaves, it should be easy for someone to step into that role and have that clear communication. And every time a senior team leader leaves, I say to my team, if we could create the perfect description, which nothing's ever perfect. No one's ever perfect. I'm certainly not perfect.

Speaker 1: But if we could create a perfect role and person to fill that role and find someone that loves doing what they do, what would that look like? Exactly. And I love that you ask your team and you talk to your team because that's another thing that we forget to do. We forget to leverage all the talent that's around us. we know that we want them to work on this project or this deliverable, but then when we get to the part where we're making decisions around the organization or we're trying to figure out what would be the next step or what would be beneficial in bringing someone new on, we very often overlook talking to the team. They're in the weeds every day. You hired these people. Use all of that brain power. So, I love that you do that. Yeah. And you want to make sure that they integrate well with other team members, too. Absolutely. Many leaders have made the move from corporate to becoming an entrepreneur. When you made the leap, what surprised you the most? That I made the leap because I wasn't planning on doing that. I would say the thing that kind of hung me up the most, it was understanding all of the things that I didn't know. So very often when you're on the corporate side, you become a subject matter expert. You're an expert marketing person or a legal person or an accountant or an HR person.

Speaker 1: You finally decide you're going to go and hang out your own shingle and now you're running a business. And that means that you have to get your fingers and toes into things that maybe you never had to do before. I had never sold anything. Selling was not a thing that human resources had to do. Selling, marketing. I knew a little bit about numbers. I can tell a P&L statement and I can figure out if the cash flow is working or not. But I'm not a professional at accounting. all of those other areas of the business that are so important. You have to be a good entrepreneur. You actually have to understand that there's a world of things that you don't know and then tackle it. Tackle it by learning and understanding as much as you can. And there are a myriad of ways you can do that. You can ask someone. You can go to YouTube. You can go to AI. You can go to Google. You can you can take a course.

Speaker 1: You can do all sorts of things. But in addition to that, don't be afraid to bring experts on. Just like you bring on great team members, bring on experts to help you. I know if I didn't have my accountant, I would jump right off this building. That's so true. That's the one thing I don't want to do either. It's like, oh my goodness, are you kidding me? Tell me how we're doing and I'll make some decisions, some financial decisions, but I don't want to close books every month. I don't know what I'm doing. So leverage the expertise that's out there. And I think that is the piece that was surprising and a little unnerving to me and I think it's surprising for a lot of experts because we're we become experts in our field but then there is world of other disciplines that we're responsible for in our business. I talked to so many women entrepreneurs who say the same thing and it's great that you had the confidence.

Speaker 1: It takes confidence to look at ourselves and say what am I not great at doing?

Speaker 1: What do I need to hire out for? What do I not want to do? That's another big thing is like the books. I don't want to do that either. I I know it. We need it and it has to be done well, but I understand that. And I talked to so many women leaders who say the same thing. I had to take a look at myself when I stepped into the role because maybe they're running a law firm and they're taught to be a lawyer, but not taught the business side of things. So, it's great you had the confidence to to look at yourself to figure out those puzzle pieces. Yeah, I think that being an entrepreneur is one of the most self-evolving exercises you can possibly go through.

Speaker 1: It really does require that on so many levels, under so many circumstances, that you look inward and get a better handle or a clearer picture of who you are, what you want, what you stand for. And I sat down the other day to do something and I thought, I can do this. This is going to be easy. An hour later, I thought, I should not be doing this. I need to hire an expert to do that. I could do it, but my time is far more valuable doing something else. That is below your pay grade. The amount of money that you as the business owner are spending on you as the expert CEO doing that particular task that someone at a completely different pay scale should be doing. you're actually wasting money and you're also wasting opportunity because I always say the CEO has the big brain.

Speaker 1: You're the one who holds the vision. You're the one who figures out where are we going next and what's the right direction and how do we solve this strategic challenge that we're looking at. And those are things that you are uniquely suited to do. So you need to give yourself space and time and opportunity to tackle those kinds of issues. So true. I wake up every day thinking, "Okay, what puzzle pieces do I have to figure out today?" Exactly. I love it though. It's really fun. It is. It is. But it is a constant game of Tetris. Certainly. Exactly. What's an outdated HR idea that you wish would disappear? And how do you guide leaders towards a better approach?

The People Are the Business

Speaker 1: Disengaging. And I know in my industry many people refer to it as the people piece. And it was very trendy a few years ago but that was in an effort to continue the evolution. So it came from personnel and then it went to human resources and then it became the people environment. But I think the point of all of that is to understand more fully the integration of the team into all aspects of the business. Not just that they do the work but also that they are the business. And so by the same token that you take care with the revenue that you receive and you don't just throw it out the window, you want to take care of the team that you're working with because they actually are fully integrated into the business. They are the business. They are the ones who are getting the work done. They are the ones that the client is interfacing with on a regular basis. So to the client, how they behave is indicative of that is the brand. that's the business's brand. So, because brand is just reputation. So, all of that, not thinking of, oh, we sell, we're retail environment and we sell dresses and the salespeople, they're just there to sell and everything else is about how we get our inventory and how we mark our inventory and all of that. You have to remember that the people are integral to everything. So you take care of the people and the people will take care of your business. So that means if you've gotten to the point where you have clarity around your vision and hopefully you do before you even start your company because I think that everything starts with vision. It all cycles back to vision. So once you know what your north star is, if you have infused that throughout the organization and brought on the right people and your team is on board with that and you're all rowing in the same direction, you're going to have unlimited success because everyone is doing the same job. Everyone is going after the same goal. And that means that as a leader, you're going to spend a lot more time helping and growing and nurturing your team than maybe you might think is necessary. But you've got to do it. Your team is everything. They absolutely are everything. And I tell people that I started in my second bedroom. It was just me and my computer and that was it. That again back in the dark ages. But once I brought on a team, there are some days as a business leader, you can wake up and not feel so great. Maybe you've been tustling with a business issue instead of sleeping all night long. You're exhausted. You've got a difficult client call that's coming up in a couple of hours. Something else has gone wrong. But when I come in and I see my team working with one another, working with me, dealing with clients, the thing that I think I had discounted is how amazing that makes me feel. I say all the time that I stand on their shoulders and the entire company stands on the shoulders of the team, but they're like my cup of coffee. that I get a personal little bit of joy and energy from seeing them solving problems, being creative, working through issues, and their energy. And so that's something that I don't think we really talk about very much. That is a huge benefit you will get when you bring in the right people and you give them the right environment and the right opportunity and the right guidance. They will surprise you. They will be pleasantly surprising. So true. A good team and a good morning workout to start the day. Absolutely. Yeah. And when I look at the books we were talking about, I look at the numbers and I think we're all driving those numbers together. It's the team that's making it happen. And when you hire team members that love what they do and everyone works well together, it just makes everything that much better. Absolutely. And it makes the creativity flow. Ed Domino does. We're more far more than I thought we would be. When I first came up with the idea or when Liam first came up with the idea, I thought we were going to be one thing and we've grown over the years into all sorts of other areas and that much of that has come from feedback from the team. You created the leaders journey experience. One of the most memorable moments that participants walk away with. It is understanding that they're not alone.

Education Arm

Speaker 1: Part of the hallmark of the leaders journey experience is our education arm.

Speaker 1: all of that but there's a huge community aspect to it. And I think that piece is the thing that's most surprising for people because then they realize they're not alone. That weird weird problem that you have with your team, someone came to you and said, "Gee, that girl Vicki in my department, she doesn't smell very good." And you're like, "Now, what am I supposed to do?" And you realize other people have had that problem. There is a solution to the problem. And you are not alone. You're not having to face this alone. I think that's the thing actually across the board. I know that's the thing that makes me feel the most gratified when I go into a mastermind or any other kind of an environment to just understand that I'm not reinventing the wheel. I'm not doing it for the first time. I'm not facing something that doesn't have a solution. And entrepreneurs from an HR perspective or any other business aspect can feel lonely. You can't necessarily talk to your team. Sometimes you can't talk to family members. So having a group of people going through what you're going through can mean everything. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you get answers to the question. It's like, okay, this is how you deal with that. And so then you have a plan of action. And I know for me that kind of calms down my mental insanity when I'm facing some kind of a challenge is if I know that there's a path. What is one mindset shift that helped you go from managing teams in corporate to building your own business? The main mindset shift is understanding that I was suited for the leadership role. Again, it was something that someone else saw in me that I did not see in myself. I took it on as an activity because I had some deliverables for him and I wanted to take care of those and then I was like, I'm going to incorporate and again I love SOP so give me a checklist, give me a project and I'm your girl. So I went through that process of incorporating and getting insurance, setting up the organization and doing all of that. But it wasn't until probably a year in that I realized how connected I was to this role and what it would require of me that I was really excited about doing it. So understanding how to fully step in to the role, that's actually what my book is about. It's about really stepping into that leadership role, that entrepreneur role fully and taking it on and saying, you know what, this fits me. I can do this. Let's go. So, tell us about your book. And I also have to ask, how has being an opera singer shaped the way you communicate and lead in business today? Couldn't let the episode go by without asking you about that. Oh, thank you. My book is actually called Sing with Your Opera Voice and my journey from solarreneur to entrepreneur. And the thing about singing is that it actually is really personal exercise. I named the company because of a personal feeling that I had. I sang with the LA Opera Company and the Phil Armonic for the master crowd for 20 seasons and I'm a lyric soprano. So very often, particularly when singing with large orchestras like the Phil, you know, sing movement number one and movement number two and then you wait for a while. Particularly something like Mer, you sing the first couple movements, you wait for 45 minutes and then you come in again and do the last movement. So many times I have solved business challenges while I was sitting there in the middle of a world-class orchestra listening to amazing music for the third time that week and not really thinking about the business challenge but my mind was creatively open and the resolution would just float in and all of a sudden I understood I had clarity around it. By the same token, as much as I love singing, when it is a job, it is a job.

Speaker 1: So, if I was stressing out about the next audition or whatever the case may be, it felt very good to go to work where I could go into the business environment where I could go from point A to point B to point C to point D and I didn't have to worry about how my instrument felt that day or if it were too dry that day or any of that. So the left brain, right brain thing has been a thing for me my entire career because I've been working in business the whole time. Even the whole time I was singing, I always felt that one side allowed me to resolve challenges for the other side. So I named it E Domino because it's the name of an opera by Mozart. I love the music. I love to sing it. But also it reminded me of the other side of my life. So, I didn't want something that said HR because I knew we would do more than HR, but also I wanted something that would remind me of that kind of just unabashedly creative side of my life. Now, being a human being and being adaptable, Ed Domino just means HR to me now. So, there you go. But that was the reasoning behind it. And the book is really around one particular moment when I was having a voice lesson and my teacher said all of a sudden I just had a moment where everything worked. The breath worked. The buoyancy worked. My body was fully connected. The sound was coming from where it was supposed to. Everything was aligned. And she said, "That's it. That's what you're supposed to do. What did you just do that changed from singing that passage a moment before?" And I said, "I don't know. I guess I just sang like I thought an opera singer would sing." And she said, "Exactly. Sing with your opera voice." And it was years before I realized what she was talking about was fully step into the role. Stop thinking of yourself as not being capable or being less than or not being there yet or not having the understanding or the experience or the skill. You have to, particularly when you're singing, you have to trust your body. You're going to open your mouth. You're going to try to get your body fully aligned, but what comes out? And I'm a lyric soprano, as I said. So, every once in a while, you hit a note and it hits you back. So, you really have to trust yourself. The minute you don't trust yourself, you start backing off. And then your breath isn't aligned anymore. Then your body and your muscles aren't aligned anymore.

Speaker 1: And that's when you get into vocal trouble. And it's the same thing with running a business and being an entrepreneur. You have to know you can do it. Step into it. Step into it fully because you know what? You can do it. You are doing it. And you're going to do it even better as the years continue. You just have to leave all those doubts behind. Step fully into it. I'm a big believer of continuous learning. Continue to experience other people and get information from them. Go ahead and get continuing education, but know that you've got this. And so that's what the book's all about. I love that. Thank you for bringing the book into this world because I love how you brought your creativity and your business together and everyone has their own kind of meditative way of working through challenges and it's amazing that you found yours that way. It's a wonderful thing. I cannot say enough how incredibly lucky I have been in my career. And to be able to realize that part of my creativity was just it was an amazingly wonderful thing and gave me some crazy and amazing moments during my singing career and I think really helped me on the business side as well. Magic happens when we focus on the part of our business and oursel that brings us joy. We've talked a lot about business today.

Speaker 1: What is one thing that you do to make sure that you're finding and living your joy? I work too much, I think. So, I'm probably going to give a work answer, but thinking singing, maybe. I took a one-year hiatus about seven years ago, so I haven't been because finally the schedule was too much. Domino was really growing. I was literally scheduled two years in advance. People would say, "Okay, can you come to this conference? It's next April." And I'm like, "What day in April?" They're like, "It's next year." And I'm like, "No, I'm booked for the next two years." So I need to know exactly what day you're talking about.

Speaker 1: So after that I did finally decide to hang up my vocal cords. So I haven't really sung very much. But the thing that I do love is I've channeled my creativity into course creation. I also have a teaching credential. I tell people I was born this way. I'm a lyric soprano. I'm an only child and I'm a Leo. Put me in front of a camera to record a course and I'm a happy camper.

Speaker 1: So, that really is where I channel most of my creative energy these days. Yeah.

Speaker 1: So nice. I'm an only child, too. And my dad's a Leo. Excellent. There you go. I knew I liked you. Thank you so much for joining us today and congrats on the incredible business you have built from the one room with your computer. Please share with us how and where we can find you. Absolutely. I have a little gift for your audience. It is at I will not force everyone to spell e do. It's at vicky brownhr.com/mpodcast gift. And there you'll also be you'll be able to get a little worksheet and workbook that we have for you. But in addition to that, it gives you access to all of our where we are, how to get in touch with us, and how to get additional resources. We are on LinkedIn. We're asy do and leaders journey on LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube, Instagram.

Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us today. I'd love to hear from you. Reach out to me at hell@ shebiltit.com on our sheiluiltit website or at sheiltit on social. Thank you to my editor Rich Dalino who always makes us sound good. Until next time, let nothing stop you from experiencing the life and business that you crave.