Why Great Leaders Stop Trusting Their Teams (And How to Reset)

Melanie Barr: Most employees who experience workplace [music] injustice never pursue it because the legal system feels out of reach. Alex [music] 2 is changing that.

Melanie Barr: Alex is the co-founder and CEO of JLG Lawyers, a California employment law [music] firm that has recovered more than 800 million for employees, built on a philosophy called Justice with Humanity. [music] She is also managing partner of 25 ventures and a member of the Forbes Real Estate Council. [music] Alex, thank you for being here. Welcome to She Built It. I'm Melanie Bar. Thank you for joining us, Alex.

Speaker 2: Hi, Mal. Thank you so much for having me.

Melanie Barr: What problem were you determined to solve when you built JLG Lawyers?

Speaker 2: I am the CEO of JLG Lawyers. We're 80 person law firm, 25 staff, attorneys. I started JLG Lawyers from a very different direction. I ran tech companies and real estate companies before starting at JLG Lawyers. The business has been in our family for over 18 years. My husband started it 18 years ago and I joined the company maybe 5 years ago during COVID after my husband got sick and because he got sick and somebody needed to step into the business I stepped in. Obviously I'm now the CEO of the company. I grew this firm from what 15 cases, six employees to what it is now where we're handling over 2,000 cases and what a staff of 80 people and the firm's just continuing to

Melanie Barr: grow. And I love hearing about this and we were talking before about your previous career in real estate and how you were inspired to empower women and look at what you have built when you stepped into the role. Women are very good usually at operations and team building and the things that t it takes to really run a successful business. I

Speaker 2: come from real estate and one of the things I was sharing with you Melody is that in real estate at one point I had 3,000 real estate agents that I was brokering. I was part of a company called Kell Williams. I was the number six agent to join Kell Williams 20 years ago and then was the operating partner for downtown LA and then I sold my franchise after that. Ran a whole region and then also was an executive at Maboto which is a competitor of Zillow and so did a lot of prop tech stuff now which gives me a really interesting perspective because in real estate if you look at real estate we are what 65 70% of the workforce. If you look at real estate brokers, agents, people who are selling property, it is mostly women. But when you look at the folks that are in the seauite, the executive levels of real estate, it was maybe 20%.

Speaker 2: And in an industry that's dominated by women, you are not seeing the people at the top. And so I take that with me. And so when I saw the she built it podcast, I'm super excited because now I'm in the law firm space and firm is operating at such a high level. And that has not changed at all. Now we have an industry that's predominantly dominated by men, right? And I am seeing even far less women in the top levels of law firms.

Melanie Barr: And I love about, you know, podcasts like this. And when I was in real estate, I was involved in an organization called Woman Up. And it was all about these types of conversations ma making sure that we as women were helping when you reach that level that you're helping the next woman come up and what she's doing and how what are the myths what are the things that what are the parts of operation how do we get more women into those executive roles I had mentioned I started she built it because I previously worked for the Dodgers and I would look out at the empty field and wonder if I would ever have kids and knowing that the men that I was working with which it was primarily men who weren't thinking the same things. And there's no reason whether someone has kids or not, there's no reason why women shouldn't be able to go through their lives and continue doing the things and working in the roles that they want to.

Speaker 2: Absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more.

Melanie Barr: What does JLG do differently for the employees that you represent?

Speaker 2: We do a couple of things differently.

Different law firm model

Speaker 2: One of the things when you look at law firms, right, there's usually a one-sizefitit all when attorneys are applying for jobs. typical law firm is that you go in and you're a junior attorney and then you become a senior attorney and you're litigating and you're working on cases and there's one track to go up. You go into as an associate attorney, then you become a partner. Everybody's trying to become a partner and you're moving your way up.

Different career paths

Speaker 2: And what I'm finding is that for our law firm, what we do differently is that we realize that it is not a onesizefitit all for attorneys. Not all attorneys are coming into their careers thinking that they want the exact same thing. And I'll give you an example. I have some attorneys that come in and they're like, "Alex, I want to be a trial attorney, right? I want to go to trial. I want to take cases all the way trial. I want to take 20 depositions on a case or whatever it is. And I want to be in courtrooms and trying cases." I have other attorneys who are like, "I never want to see the inside of a courtroom, right? I just want to do motion writing and things like that." And then I have other attorneys that says, "Hey, I want to make a lot of money, but I don't want to be doing motion writing. I like to do early resolutions on cases." Same is true of attorneys and where they are in their lives. I have attorneys who are like they're their mothers. They want to work from home. They want they don't want to go to trial, at least not at this time in their life, but they're amazing at what they do. So really what we do differently is I first start off with our attorneys to talk about where they are in their lives. You start there, right? Where are you in your lives and then where do you want to be in the next few years and then I work backwards of where and in our operation

Speaker 2: able to grow in the firm. It's not this one shoe fits all type of approach to old school law firms especially and now especially in this day and age where AI and technology has enabled us to be able to be a lot more fluid and creative in how we build our business. I'm having so much fun and building the business. I'm

Melanie Barr: smiling because you've taken a somewhat antiquated business structure and made it more relevant. And you're right, whether someone has kids or not, they're always going to have a different interest. Probably, like you mentioned, some might want to be in the courtroom, some might never want to see it. But also, I love that for parents and moms, they might want to take a little bit of a step back or just do something that is not as personally taxing, but once their kids get to a certain age, maybe they're ready for that again.

Speaker 2: Right. Absolutely. And then I even take it down to my parallegals. I'll give you an example. I I surveyed my parallegals and I realized that so many of my parallegals, they are so smart. They should really be attorneys. They truly are. You've met a 20-year parallegals are better than most junior attorneys because they've been doing this for so long. And I found out that my parallegals, it's not that they don't want to be attorneys, they can't afford to be attorneys cuz they've had kids.

Speaker 2: They can't go to law school because they can't stop working because they are the breadwinners of their families. They're taking care of their parents or whatever the reasons are. One of the things that we've done at our law firm is that we started a JLG apprentice program. Apprentice program in California means that the law firm and the attorneys that are supervising the program has to get a curriculum approved with the California State Bar. And if you get that and you administer it, guess what? You can have people work and study on on the job and become attorneys in four years by taking the baby bar on the first year and then in four years sit for the regular bar.

Speaker 2: Our parallegals can become attorneys without stopping working and without getting into debt.

Melanie Barr: That is so amazing. It's amazing that you had the foresight to see that path and to make it happen for people.

Speaker 2: Absolutely. And I find that a it's more women parillegals right that are all and this program type of program has been around in California for a really long time but it's very unsuccessful because most law firms when they start a program like this they fill out the paperwork they have a supervising attorney and then what happens is that the parallegal or whoever it is is on their own and they usually flunk right that they don't pass the state bar. What we've done differently is that we pay for the program. We have study groups within our firm that are scheduled. We have hired instructors to come in and actually work with the apprentice in addition to the attorneys to make sure that they're on track in their studying. We give them time off to study, things like that. As employers, there are things that you can do within your power to make it so that folks that come in and entrust you with their careers come out in the next few years and they're better for it. And so that is an example of something we do at that's so smart and amazing leadership and you're only going to get better team members by doing those things.

The human middle

Speaker 2: Yes. I talk about this all the time within my team. I had this thing ever since especially in the past few years. I call it the human middle. The human middle is where AI cannot solve the problem. Right? It is where you think AI could have thought about this program or how things like that. It's about getting together as employer and employee getting together and building something greater than yourselves. Cuz I I think in this world there's so much that's polarizing. When I think of the workplace, how many times do you hear that your manager is the evil one, right? And then for managers, you hear your employees are out to get you, right? Safeguard yourself. The reality is that most employers want to be good.

Speaker 2: They want to do a good job for their employees. And most employees want to do a good job for their employers. The problem is we have both been jaded.

Speaker 2: We've had past terrible experiences with managers for employees and for employers. You've had terrible experiences with employees that have taken advantage of you. And so I call this exboyfriend effect. The ex-boyfriend effect is that you bring into the relationship all the sins of your ex-boyfriend into your new relationship. It does not change when it comes to employer. Right? I have seen far too many people who are owners of businesses and and law firms or whatever you have who have opened the business with true good intentions of how they want to treat people and and belief in people over the years because they've been somehow somebody did something to them. Someone took advantage of them and then now the next person that they hired they're just untrusting. They're not optimistic. They don't see possibilities. I've run many businesses.

Speaker 2: I've had employees embezzle for me before. You name it, it has happened.

Seeing potential after setbacks

Speaker 2: But to get back up and still know that you can develop this person and see the good in what this person can bring to your organization is the whole kitten kaboodleoodle. So true because all we are as business owners is a collection of people.

Speaker 2: That's it. I don't care what you're selling it. All companies are a collection of people. as the leader of the company can no longer see the possibility that different people can bring to your organization, then you are going to be your worst enemy in the growth.

Women’s strategic strengths

Speaker 2: And I think that's a good strategic thing that women bring is we're collaborative and we develop and that's really needed within a business.

Melanie Barr: Absolutely. And I think it's the

Speaker 2: listening that needs to happen especially in this world of AI, especially in AI. Here's the big secret. No one actually knows what they're doing. And I think that women are at a disadvantage because we think that we have to have all the answers before we start something. And the big secret is men and don't, right? They do not wait until they have all the answers. And the reality is in this world where that is an advantage right now, nobody knows what it is. It's like the frontier. You need to just start doing. Don't wait for

Melanie Barr: permission. I I think that is absolutely

Speaker 2: the case. Even AI will say, "I'm sorry. I told you wrong. When you get that answer, you're like, "Wait a minute. This isn't right." And you say, and it's like, "Oh, sorry."

Speaker 2: And we're we're supposed to be accepting of that, right? Well, so let's be also be accepting of people, right? The thing is that AI at the end of the day is there to affirm what you're already thinking. They're it's going to gather whatever it is that you they think you want to hear. It's like any algorithm like social media, everything. Guess what? When you are having conversations and be being collaborative, that is and you give your employees permission to tell you what they're thinking in a safe space, that is where you're going to find some of the best results and the best the groundbreaking change that needs to happen in an organization that actually

Melanie Barr: moves your organization. So true. Speaking of AI, what is the biggest growth challenge that you're seeing within AI? I understand the human element, but as your business scales and grows, what are you seeing there?

Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because I think when AI first started and I remember looking at AI last year, it was literally trying to convince people to use it, right? How do you use this? Do should I? Oh, and then everybody's poo pooing on it. Oh, the hallucinates and all this stuff. Now, and I told my entire team back last year, I listen 2026 is not going to be about convincing people anymore. That was 2025, right? 2026 is going to be about workflows and really dialing down your workflows and seeing where it could help and doing what I call checks and balances within AI. Because now what I think a lot of employers are seeing is the misuse of AI. I think every business owner raised their hand. How many people have gotten something from their employee or where it is clearly a written it's a 20page freaking report that nobody's actually read and then you feel like you are correcting AI you're no longer correcting a human I have been there done that so as a business owner and you have a ton of employees and a ton of different operations that are happening how do you combat that how do you make sure that you and especially for us we're lawyers right how do you make sure that things are done ethically, that that is not just AI running rampant in your business. We're starting to see different problems that that cause that means poor work quality.

Employee knowledge

Speaker 2: You're finding employees don't actually have the knowledge of the cases or the products because they're relying too much on AI. So those things where you could ask somebody last year, tell me about the case, the parallegal can just tell you about the case. Guess what?

Speaker 2: They can't tell you about the case anymore because they need AI to tell them about the case cuz they didn't lock it in. Right? That's why in 2026 when I said it was about workflow architecture, that is what I mean. The architecture of your workflow and how you are running your business and who does what needs to be thought out by the business owner because that architecture gives you checks and balances so that AI can be efficient without running rampant. So there's checks and balance. So I'll give you an example in our business in the law firm business we rely on AI to do maybe first drafts right so for example nothing in our firm goes out without have going through a parallegal and going through an attorney and we know who the parallegal is and we actually track in our computer monitoring system who does what when it goes out so that we don't have AI running rampid and that people are not checking their work because if you don't have a system that checks what employees these are doing.

Speaker 2: Guess what? They're just going to hit send.

Melanie Barr: It's so true. And AI can help us, but

Speaker 2: you're right. We need those checks and balances from a human. Checks and balances from the system. It can't be just one human, right? Because if it's one, you're going to be in trouble, right?

Melanie Barr: Yes.

Speaker 2: For us, I believe in AI. We are one of the few law firms that have our own engineers on staff. We build our own agents. We build some of our own software. because I have a tech background, our firm stands out because we build a lot of our own tech because of who I am that I believe that you need to actually know and own some of your code. Even though it's a law firm, I believe in AI. I believe in the efficiency, but I also believe that there's got to be checks that are put in place. We do not unload AI unless we check it a million times, right? When I talk about templates that we let the team use, for example, just making sure that those things are in place. I'm a believer in commu computer monitoring for employees, that also helps us as well with AI and visibility and your organic media for your company. AI can

Melanie Barr: skip over businesses now. How are you looking at visibility for customers being able to find you? A lot of businesses right now in advertising, especially digital advertising, AI now for marketing, it could spit out so much content. I I don't know how you guys are in your social media feeds. I get so exhausted cuz it's so much, right? And then you get exhausted by looking and just wondering is or is this real? It's just and there's so much information coming at you that sometimes I just leave. I don't want to be told how to do

Speaker 2: something one more time. I want to see that again. It's it's an interesting shift. it it's a big shift and so what we focus on is more quality for example last year I didn't do podcasts I didn't do I am out here doing podcasts because I know that this is what changes it's real conversations between me and you Melanie it's tidbits that people are going to and take away and bring into their real lives that is the difference our firm this year is doing more outreach more more human what I call it it's where to have these conversations, right? That's part of what we're doing differently. In addition to that, doing more news articles, talking to more reporters on what we're doing with our cases, what types of cases we're seeing, so that we're not just a talking head on social media or or AI like advertisement that's happening right on on Google or whatever it is. The landscape of how you communicate is so different. And I think you're going to see more people get sick of what they're seeing on digital and want more of a human connection. The work that you and I do is make a place where those human connection when you're so behind a computer all day becomes something that is welcoming, something that feels good, something that isn't polarizing. That is really the big difference. For example, even in our work culture, I have most people come into work now. Our law firm isn't a stuffy law firm. You come in and most of us are dressed casual in jeans that you walk into the parallegal bullpen and there's a pick a shoe in the middle and stuff where the parallegals are bringing things for each other. And the reason why we do that is because yes, our attorneys do wear suits to go to the office or sorry to court or if they need to do an appearance, but we do that because so much of what we do is about the people that we're with. Yes, we do have some people that work remote, but we do make sure that when you come to an office, you're not coming to an empty office.

Speaker 2: And I think through co we all got so used to being at home that now we want to be with other people again.

Melanie Barr: Yes.

Speaker 2: And we want to be in an environment that we enjoy. And yes, there's work involved, but why shouldn't we enjoy where we go every day?

Speaker 2: Yes. And I think that for us running a law firm, most law firms are pretty stuffy, right? And it's not fun. and you walk into our law firm and it feels like you can feel the buzz in the air.

Speaker 2: I have employees that come to me and say, "Hey, I missed being at work." They go on vacation, they come back and they're like, "Wait, they're hugging each other. They're missing each other." And because they didn't get to come in and tell, you know, John or Sam about whatever, right? And they said, "So, it's getting back to that as well."

Melanie Barr: That shows that you built a good company

Speaker 2: culture.

Speaker 2: And I hope that that does resonate. And even for example, one of our attorneys is they have a couple of people having babies right now. Just understanding that people go through times in their lives where it's difficult. I have a very unique perspective because our law firm is an employment plaintiff's law firm. We sue companies for discrimination, for sexual harassment, retaliation. You run the gamut, right?

Speaker 2: But I'm also an employer. I am also an employer where I run a workplace with probably a lot of the same issues that su people for and so often I see cases that come through that you can just tell it was maybe a bad actor in the company like a bad supervisor but now the company's got to pay for it. For me if I can prevent people from actually having to need my services and I'm sure your cases make you think about how you want to develop your company culture. We've developed to to avoid a lot of those things for sure.

Melanie Barr: We've talked a lot about business today. What do you do for you to make sure that you're finding and living your joy?

Melanie Barr: I love it. With as busy as we are, we have to schedule that time in and make sure that we're having alone time because otherwise we can be so inundated by the excitement of work and the excitement of growing a business and technology. But it's so great that you got away to actual nature.

Melanie Barr: Well, you mentioned podcasting. SBI Media, my company produces podcasts. And it's interesting because I've seen the shift from obviously you want to talk about what you do and talk about your business, but also I've seen podcasting become more of a human to human and a way to meet people within your industry or within an industry that you want to meet people in. So, it's been an interesting shift as a podcast producer and host to see that shift and also to say this is a real conversation with the real human because you can clone, but I think we're going to get really tired of seeing that really quickly and say, I really want to actually see the human conversation and know that this was a real conversation and not something fake.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And you hear that a lot, especially with AI. What I mean, I get this question all the time. Where do these jobs go? Hey, is AI going to take jobs away from different people? And so when you say this clone thing, right, our business is growing, but we have not had to cut people because we're using AI. And I think that you got to make sure that important decisions are done by humans constantly. And so when I talk about workflows, I'm talking about where are the things that can be done by AI be done by other people and where does the person or that the position has just

Melanie Barr: changed.

Melanie Barr: It's fun. how fast things are changing and it is good you can be more efficient but I do I've said this on the podcast before we are still human I think

Speaker 2: yes

Melanie Barr: so we're still going to want those human things one of the things I'm developing right now is what I call the human middle which is more conversations about the workplace like what types of conversations could be had by an employer and employee to come together for solutions I believe because of the algorithm them because of so many polarizing things including AI itself when you ask it a question it's just going to confirm what you think that in the workplace there's so such a pool right now where it's an us versus them it's you think employees you got to safeguard your company toward bad employees and if you're employee evil management the evil company right and one of the things that I have learned being a real estate executive and building companies and coaching business owners is that the best things are done together when you are no longer in these polar opposites. Most people are in the middle and if you can help employees and employer create founders work with their team, build their teams, make it financially worth it for their team to stick with them and build something bigger than themselves. That is worth everything. And it is such a better life to live. That's where you're going to get your fulfillment. That's where you're going to get your balance. That's where you're going to do your greatest work that you're really proud of. But we're so busy in these outskirts trying to find the right answers. We live in a polarizing world. I look at the workplace and I see the polarization of the actual workplace. One of the things I'm working on is is having those conversations. How do you get unstuck as a manager? How do you make sure that your jadedness from before doesn't come with you into this next project, the next person that you hire? Right? minute for employees. You had a terrible freaking boss, but how do you go into this being open to the possibility of growing and in turn growing your career?

Melanie Barr: And I think that so many people get so locked in to what have happened to them in the past that they don't see possibilities. They don't see how, you know, taking a product or a service and growing it together that you can bring people along. People can see that and work on what I call the human middle.

Melanie Barr: solve those problems in the workplace, whether it is it remote work or hybrid work or what your projects are. There's so many questions. We spend most of our time with our co-workers, right?

Collaborative leadership

Melanie Barr: It's interesting. I learned when leading nonprofit boards, I'd ask everyone for their input and usually that was the best answer. And so that goes into my business every day. And I love it when team members come to me and say, "Have you thought about this and what about this?" So I really try to create that type of culture, too.

Speaker 2: Doesn't have to be me leading everything. I love the collaboration of everyone's idea because usually that's the the best path forward.

Speaker 2: I would say that what I've learned is yes, but collaboration with the so for example, my doors are open. People can come to me and ask me questions and things like that. However, when it comes to big business decisions and direction on where a department or where a team is going or things like that that I reserve for the team members who have earned that right to be listened to, right? You can't come in and you've been here for two weeks and now you're going to tell us all what to do. I think a lot of women get burnt out because they feel like they got to listen to everybody, take all the input in and that is the best decision. Nope. It's actually a bit more complicated than that, right? I mean ultimately you have to make the decision in the final but when you have team members that have been with you I have some team members who've been with me for eight years when you have those team members and you say what do you think is the best path forward and then ultimately obviously you as a leader make the final decision and I know we're saying the same thing about listening to team members sometimes we just I I see a lot of women where they try to listen to everybody

Speaker 2: all people you cannot do that you got to pick and choose who you listen to at cert Other thing is empowering certain team members to make their own decisions. Making sure that you're leading leaders who in their own right can make decisions in department and things like that and you're going to stand by them even and they'll make mistakes but being able to like support them in that growth and not feel like jump in write the ship or whatever it is.

Joy and daily routines

Speaker 2: And you asked me what I do for joy. I have twins and they're very athletic and I spend a lot of time on a field but that gets me to walk. When I drop them off, I usually go for a walk, either at the beach or on the track. I was just thinking about this the other day. It gives me time to process the day, time to think about things I want to do, and I don't think I would take that much time to slow down if I wasn't taking them to the practices. I do a 5-minute meditation every day and lifting. I'm also strength training, but that 5 minute meditation in the morning really sets the tone for the day. And I listen to podcasts, too. What's given

Melanie Barr: you the fuel to really do this podcast

Speaker 2: and give advice to women? It was having twins, having a senior level corporate career to being in a nursery, thinking if I don't have an intellectual conversation, I might lose my mind and how do I keep this incredible community of women and men that I've known over the years together? And I started She Built It. And then I realized I also enjoy working with men and all people. I want to work with all people. So now I also have SBI media, but I've been lucky that I could grow it at a pace where now my kids are older and I can do some more things. It is an eb and flow and at certain times of life, some things are more important in our life than others.

Melanie Barr: And it's great that you're supporting women in that way. It's really amazing and that you see it cuz not every leader sees it.

Speaker 2: It's been a journey and you make a lot of mistakes along the way. Everyone makes mistakes. It's funny cuz I have this conversation with my kids are very athletic and I tell them even the professional athletes make mistakes. We're human. Everyone makes mistakes. But it's how fast you get back into that mental mindset.

Melanie Barr: Yes.

Speaker 2: To continue moving forward cuz no one is perfect.

Melanie Barr: Absolutely. I have three daughters. Again, I literally just had this conversation with my husband. I was like, you have to make sure that you let your girls say no to you. How do you raise kids that can say that could number one go out into the world and be able to especially girls be confident enough to challenge the people around them when they have been told by society that you should be nurturing whatever it is right and so much of it comes from the parents and so I'm there are times where I'm just like man I really want to say to my daughter because I said so just do it

Speaker 2: I'm smiling because I've had that thought too I want her to have a fiery personality at times to where she'll stand up for herself if it's needed.

Melanie Barr: Right.

Speaker 2: So sometimes when she I'm smiling because I completely understand what you're saying. I'm like I really want to say something right now, but I do not want to squash his personality for the future cuz it is really needed.

Melanie Barr: That's the same thing with me. I I feel like so often my daughter is just arguing with me and I'm thinking to myself, I still want to tell her just to do it cuz I said so. But I know that this is important that she feels like she can say something. she has the right to be heard and what she thinks is important, but so I tell her all the time, you can disagree with me, but do it respectfully. And then I literally just had this conversation with my husband. I said, you need to almost create, take a step back and let them challenge you.

Melanie Barr: Let them challenge you because they're about to go to college and they're start journey.

Speaker 2: They're at that age. I'm an immigrant.

Speaker 2: I'm Vietnamese. I I lived in a refugee camp before I came to the United States.

Melanie Barr: Wow. You know, I was four and I grew up in a Vietnamese household where my parents did not speak English and I was the one that did everything. I remember as a Vietnamese American, you grew up in a place where, you know, grew up in America and we didn't know and you were taught to be quiet or I was taught to be quiet to be to listen to authority or not speak up and that. So coming into the workplace, it was a rude awakening on your voice and I just

Speaker 2: Well, good for you that that you have and that you're encouraging that for your family. Yeah.

Melanie Barr: I've loved our conversation so much. Thank you for joining us today and share with us how and where we can find you.

Speaker 2: Find me at JLG lawyers. [music] That's Jay's Jack L and Larry G and George.com.

Speaker 2: That is my [music] law firm. I also have something that I'm working on. It's called the human metal. If you type that in, conversations you can have at the [music] workplace that is going to bring more people together.