Women’s Health at Work

Speaker 1: [Music] hi I'm Melanie bar welcome to the she builted experience with Melanie you're here because you want to experience the life and business that you crave join me as I talk to women who have successfully built it a career and business that they love we dive into the topic of how they built it and talk about everything from Having the courage to make career leaps to the details of how to lead effectively create successful teams Implement strategies for growth and Infuse Tech innovation magic happens when we focus on the part of ourselves and our business that brings us joy so let's dive in Naomi Sedin is an international lawyer thought leader author and presenter on workplace equality and issues impacting women at work Naomi's legal career spans three countries over the last 16 years where she has worked with close to 2,000 different companies across many different markets and industries she is also one of the few lawyers in the world to hold legal qualifications from three different countries in 2016 Naomi was named by legal 500 as a top attorney in the United States for legal advice and counseling Naomi your legal career spans three countries over the last 16 years where you worked with nearly 2,000 different companies which is incredible and to say that you are ambitious might be an understatement your clients are so lucky to be working with you with all of your knowledge and experience that you lend tell us about your legal career and why you are so passionate about helping your clients I started my career inh house in Australia obviously you can tell from my accent that I'm not from the United States originally I came here about 12 years ago and I came here thinking I was going to be a California litigator and um that is not the path that my career has taken me on I did litigate in California for a while which gave me a great understanding of the legal system in the US but that that is not where my um career now lives I ended up falling into the area that I'm in really as a result of a chance meeting with an Australian government official and I realized that there was this Gap in the market with assisting companies around International expansion and so that really was the start of my journey into this area and it progressed and and developed over the years I've now helped over 400 companies expand their business glob I do predominantly work within the APAC region and the us although not exclusively I've helped companies from all over the world it's been an absolutely amazing career and it's taken me all over the world which has been phenomenal and then as a result of my personal Journey it's led me in a little bit of a different direction I joined a few boards about 3 years ago and so I've been building my board portfolio I now sit on for different boards and I just released my first book on women's health issues and the workplace in December last year on my 4th birthday so I do a lot of work in the diversity and inclusion space now and that really is my passion congratulations and it seems to make sense because you understand life in Australia and life in the US so it seems to make sense for you to want to help companies to do business in both places or in the other countries that you're licensed in yeah yeah that has actually been a big part of why I've been successful I believe because a lot of people can advise on certain issues but it does make a big difference when you've actually lived a particular process as well I'm an exper I've gone through the process of expanding into a new country I know what that entails I've also expanded businesses as an expert into this country and operated businesses in other countries I've also lived in other countries I've lived in London as well it does bring a really different perspective when you're able to advise clients not just from a high level but I can actually talk to the Practical realities as well is there a favorite client case that you can share with us oh there's too many over the years I've worked with some amazing organizations I do love the companies that genuinely care about implementing better policies practices for their employees particularly those organizations that know there's always going to be some legal risk when you're looking to do something that's pretty Innovative but they do it anyway because they see the real value in it and they're the organizations I really love working with and that seems to be a big topic among a lot of the women that I'm talking to it's how do we look at the employee and what they need how do we build a company around making sure our employees are taken care of because that's really how you build the best teams and get the best work well well absolutely and it's actually really the whole reason behind my book it's not just a nice to have anymore it's actually an essential and there's a number of reasons why and we all know about the Great Recession that's happening at the moment employees are now interviewing employers and not the reverse employees are seeking out companies that are actually providing better benefits better support they want to know what the diversity is like within the organization and how the organization really tries to assist employees and I think Co has changed everybody's perspective as well we're now seeking out different types of opportunities so this is something that organizations have to be looking at because there is a war on Talent particularly in some key areas and within some markets and I don't know if it's The Optimist in me but I look at this as an exciting time because change can be fun and change can be better for everyone at times we're at a point where it is is absolutely critical and the reason why is because unfortunately we've gone backwards massively on the issue of gender equality prior to the pandemic it was bad enough it was estimated to take about 100 years to close the gap it's now estimated to take about 135.7 and I've seen some experts that are even estimating it could be longer there's so much research out there to show the benefits that an organiz ation will experience by having better diversity within their teams at all levels not just on boards we've heard for a long time why it makes sense to have a diverse board but it's actually just equally as important within the wider organization as well profits can be close to 50% greater when you have diversity within organizations that's just one statistic there are so many but it really is something that organizations need to be looking at I wrote this book on women's health because my view is this is an issue that directly relates into the issue of gender equality in the workplace and just to give you one small example of why I say that we have more women over 50 now than ever before in history globally that are working within organizations we have an older Workforce what does that mean it means that more women within your organization are going to be going through menores and the impacts of that on the workforce and that is not something we've typically discussed before but the the workforce is changing and we need to be adapting accordingly it's so true and to your point about going through covid and women in the workforce as a mom of twins I'm a mom of twins I know you are too homeschooling was a challenge and it fell a lot towards women and I see how if they had to make a choice between how to care for their families I see how that choice could have been incredibly difficult and you are the author of milk and margaritas um we have not yet shared the name of your book while we were chatting share with us the topic of your book and why you were compelled to write it I've presented all around the world on the issue of women's health and the workplace and why I want organizations to start thinking about this issue more and every time I would present on this I would have a line of women at the end you know lining up to speak to me saying you've got to write a book and so I knew it was something that I was always going to do it was something I felt compelled to do but I wanted to have a kind of an end to my journey before I got to that point I felt like it was really important as a female leader to write about my experiences the mistakes I made along the way what I learned and I also wanted to create a handbook of the business case so I wanted organizations to be able to pick up my book and go and start having convers ations within their own organizations and creating that business case for why it makes sense to care and also starting to create the business case for change what led me to all of this well in the space of two years I lost four babies one at five months I then went through about a 100 tests I had nine surgeries including a hysterctomy and then I was very lucky to have children via surrogate however they were born extremely prematurely at 28 weeks and so we spent almost 4 months in the hospital that all was pretty painful as I'm sure you can imagine but that unfortunately was not the end of my story I then went through a very public legal battle to gain parental rights in Australia where my husband and I are both from because I felt very strongly that nobody was going to tell me that my children were not mine after everything that we'd been through and can you share with us why why did you have to go through that process yeah so commercial surrogacy is illegal in Australia but it actually goes further than that because it's a crime in three states so I like to say I became The Accidental advocate for surrogacy rights in Australia it was certainly not by intent but that was um what resulted and I now sit on the board of surrogacy Australia as we're trying to advocate for change in this area and it's become so critical that we do make changes because at the moment with the situation that's going on in the Ukraine there's been so many surrogate babies as we've all seen in the media that have been in this terrible situation there and there's been a number of Australian parents that have children there and one of the reasons why families are forced out of Australia is because there is just such limited access to cacy within Australia so we desperately need change and recent situation has just highlighted that another level and you bring up women in the workforce and the things that we go through I went through IVF as well and I remember going into work and they're putting so much different chemicals in your body on a daily basis in order to have children and it was the only way we could have children in order to have them you have to go through these things and I remember the challenges of sitting through meetings and to your point that's where I think companies and organizations can be mindful of a human being and what they're going through as they're showing up to work absolutely and there's a few different aspects to this I think firstly it's an issue that relates directly to the gender pay Gap because women who are experiencing health issues or fertility issues typically have to take time off work a lot of the time they don't want to tell their company about it because they're fearful of what the implications are going to be so it does have direct implications in that way I think the other thing is absolutely right I mean I was fortunate I suppose that I only had to do three rounds some people go through this for years and years I've got friends that have done 50 or 60 rounds over 10 years I mean the impact to your body mentally I think a lot of people don't realize what is actually involved in IVF either I mean typically when you're going through a around your bed every second day sometimes every day it is a big commitment emotionally finan it is a time commitment and if you don't feel comfortable enough to be able to speak to your employer about this then it's a big problem this year's theme for international women's day I loved because it was break the bias and I think this is so applicable to women's health issues in the workforce it is something that we just haven't discussed and there is still this stigma around Women's Health and I try and talk to companies about this very issue because I think step one has to be having conversation empowering your managers to have better conversations with employees but starting to have open conversations about things like fatil and Menor so that we can start breaking down that stigma or that bias around some of these issues it's so true and you remind me of something I remember when I was pregnant with the twins I was working with an all male team and I was an entrepreneur at the time but I did not tell them until I was 5 months pregnant I saw them at 3 months pregnant and I think they might have just thought thought I was gaining weight um but I didn't tell them till 5 months pregnant because I didn't want them to think oh she's going to step back or not involve me as much and then when I I didn't even tell them I was having twins I told them I was having a baby I was able to do this because we were all spread out across the country we were a team that would talk virtually and then occasionally have to meet in person then I announced the babies were born and they said babies and I said yes I had two but I was even worse and I was working for myself so I can see how there is that fear around oh maybe they won't take on as much responsibility or maybe they're going to step back right this is not just a male female issue by the way no it's women are definitely very critical of other women when it comes to this issue as well and it's something that I've written quite extensively about in the book and I was guilty of this too I've definitely been guilty of this in in my career you know I had nine surgeries over two years and then I would have a staff member that would say oh I can't attend this hearing because I've got the flu and I would think oh my goodness I just had major surgery and I was on a call that afternoon and you've got you know the flow and you can't and that was wrong with me right there has to be a better way than simply pushing through and we have to you know get better at supporting our staff and honestly there is research to show that when we do that and we support Wellness with in the workplace and we find ways to support our employees they can actually be up to 10% more profitable and productive for the organizations we're all guilty of it at time yes we've all got this implied bias but we there literally are financial reasons and business reasons why it make sense to to be more supportive of our employees in these situations but yeah I mean I can completely relate and it's one of the reasons why I did such crazy things like have surgery and then you know I would wake up after i' been under a general anesthesia and get on a conference call I mean I was wrong in those situations not only for myself but I was also setting a really bad example for other women as well yeah and I think it's open to human aspect we're all looking deeper at how we're human beings and we want to accomplish things in our work and in our life but at the core the technology just speeds our Pace it seems well that's another big is where is the line between the workplace and our personal life anymore it's not even that it's become blurred anymore it's like there is no line it doesn't exist and I think we all need to get much better at setting some boundaries and that was something that I was really poor at before and I've definitely got a lot better at and I have to say the year that I finally decided to make some changes in this area and it was really because it was forced upon me I ended up back in the hospital for my 10 surgery and I thought at that point I have to make some changes here like something has to give because there only so much of my body that they can cut out you're also passionate about what you do and I am too and when you have that passion it can be hard to strike the balance yeah it is we all struggle with it we all have times where we don't get the balance right the other thing is we've all been told this big lie as women that you know you can have it all and I think yes you can have it all but not at the same time and we can't beat ourselves up about that I know that there are times when like this week I've had a crazy week because I've just been traveling and I've been waking till 2 in the morning and I haven't seen my kids and then I feel those K are dilt around oh my goodness I'm not spending time with them and you have to stop yourself you know it's not every day that I'm doing that I'm going to have this bad week because I'm you know trying to catch up and I will make sure that I spend some time with them over the weekend and and we have to know that that is how life is sometimes and not be ourselves up over that and I know balance isn't always a liked word but I think it really is having one week where okay you're you're working a lot more but maybe in the next week you get to step back a little bit and spend more time with family and friends or spend more time giving yourself that health care and to me I think that's a form of balance it's just finding everyone's unique form of balance yeah you're exactly right it is so important though and I think it's something that not enough people focus on particularly it's not just about spending time with our kids we need to focus on Wellness for ourselves as well and as women entrepreneurs particularly we we're very bad at that at times and guil too yeah I mean we all are and honestly the year that I did introduce Wellness into my life and I got better at it and yes I fell off the wagon you know there were days and we don't be hard on yourself no we all do exactly I actually was more profitable that year than any year in my entire career and and that really like the proof is in the footing you do look after yourself more you're a lot more likely to be productive and successful it's honestly the truth that's so true what was the writing and Publishing experience like and what would you say to someone going through that process it was so interesting I'm some that has always loved writing I've written a lot of Articles through the years I've written for Huffington Post I write a lot of you know legal updates and so when I started this journey I thought I can write a book I've written you know all my life I've always loved writing I did a journalism degree with my law degree you know so I thought I've got this and then I started the process and I realized it is an entirely different world there are things about writing a book that I just had absolutely no idea about I also didn't appreciate how many people are involved in the process or need to be involved in the process the best thing I did and I highly recommend to everybody is how book coach because a book coach is absolutely invaluable I had an amazing one JZ rollinson she is incredible she really got me from the point of script to a published author just keeping you accountable and talking not just talking you through the scpt is setting goals and you don't know what you don't know right so so true and it had to be fun to learn a new industry it was it was great and I've definitely got the writing bug now I'm about to start my second book which I'm very excited about I'm actually going to do a workplace Series so the next book's going to be on neurodiversity in the workplace nice we can't wait to read it when it comes to leadership what is your advice for managing your team so that you work together and end up with the best outcome for your clients have conversations don't be afraid to have conversations it's something that so many managers are fearful of they might see someone struggling and I have conversations with companies all the time about these exact issues they'll come to me and say we need to terminate this person for example then you start talking to them about what's actually going on here often you'll find out well they been a great performer previously but now Something's Happened and they're just not performing and so you start talking to to them and saying well have you had discussions with the person oh no but we've heard on the great line that they might be going through you know a divorce or they've got some kind of health issues don't wait to that point where you get to the termination terminations are expensive firstly you're often paying legal fees you've often got to pay some kind of Separation there are recruitment costs associated with terminating someone finding someone new there's you know productivity losses um it is time and money when you have to manage someone and it gets to that point there are often not always I recognize there are some situations where you need to move people on but I do see a lot of situations where if you had have just had a conversation with the person about how you might be able to support them and empowering them to tell you what they need to succeed I think that is absolutely critical I think employees have a role here too though I think so often what happens is we create this tension because an employee will come and they'll say something like I'm going through all these health issues and so it's impacting my work where you need to start flipping the conversation and saying this is what's going on and these are some of the things I could really use right now to help me succeed in my role then you start talking about Solutions rather than problems so the employee is not afraid to come and actually share what's going on in their life I had a team member working for me and she wanted increased responsibility I went ahead and and increased the responsibility and the role and then I thought to myself I don't think she's enjoying this so we had a conversation and it turned out that she didn't you learn in those moments to put people in the right place to do the things that they love and then they Thrive but you you are so right an organization has to be open about hearing that feedback absolutely and when I was in business development I used to always think it's so much more expensive to gain a new client than to keep the clients that you currently have yes absolutely it's so true and the same is with employees right with people who are working for you rather than having to your point to go out and find someone new and to your point it so makes so much more sense to just have those open conversations and to make sure that everyone is happy you should be setting people up to succeed and I think not enough companies check in with their people either you know we need to know like what is this person's exactly what you said what is this person's career as ations what are they passionate about is there a different area that they really want to be working in and sometimes that might lead to a conversation about well is this the right role for you or is this the right organization even and that's okay too it's far better to get to that point and have that discussion and support that person to find what it is they're passionate about then to continue on and go down a process that ends ugly so true and she built its mission is to inspire and Empower you to experience a life and business that you crave and we all crave something different so if you don't fit into that role there is someone else that does and that's the beautiful thing absolutely it's so true you are a mom of twins building an incredible career and there are so many layers to life our friends family work travel selfcare and making sure we take time for ourselves which we talked about what advice would you give for someone who's managing a busy lifestyle I think it's not beating yourself up I I'm really trying to implement Wellness into my life but the other thing is that I would add to you know that long list that you just went through Melanie is giving back as well I'm a big believer in finding time to give back in some way gosh with everything going on in the world right now we all need to be so thankful for what we have in our life and our blessings and I think we all should be finding a way to get back but when you have that on top of the list it's hard it's easy to feel overwhelmed and I've been feeling overwhelmed the last few weeks thinking about all these things and how I be there not enough hours in the day right think because a mama of young twins there's really no way to avoid that at this age and Stage because I'm with you so it's yeah it's a challenge but I think you've just got to take each day as it comes try not to get stressed about it I am the big planner I have le I've got you know a whiteboard here I'm not someone that just is very digital I like to see things in my office I like to TI things off I love whiteboards and spreadsheet and I couldn't I couldn't do all that I do and keep it all organized in my life without calendars and list and spreadsheets so I'm very big on that it's also something really satisfying about being able to TI things off a list too absolutely and when it comes to the creative process and kind of a free flow it's nice to write things down because it's less structure you can be a little more creative and free flowing definitely I ask this question at the end of every episode because as we've talked about it's so important to bring joy into our daily lives magic happens when we focus on the part of ourselves and our business that brings us joy what is one tip that you can leave with us today about how you find and live your joy find your passion life is far too short to be doing something that you don't love we're never going to love every sing day that they're at work I mean I think that's impossible we all have good days and we all have bad days but if you are not feeling passionate about the work that you're doing then I I really encourage you to try and pivot or move into something else because we only get one shot at this life and I think it's just so important to try and find your passion but also if I would say you know make sure that you cve out that time for the special people in your life because it just makes the hard days so much more worthwhile so true such good advice thank you so much for being with us today Naomi you have built and are still building an incredible career please share with our listeners how and where they can find you yeah thank you you can find me at naet.com or on Instagram at mil Margarita if you are new to Sheil it we'd love for you to join us we offer a community membership masterminds Innovative virtual events and meaningful connections to entrepreneurs and corporate leaders please also check out our sheb built it shop curated products from women-owned businesses who put their heart and soul into their beautiful and Innovative products we offer sheb built it business Consulting and the Sheil tip blog thank you to everyone around the world who joined today thank you to my editor Rich stalino please download And subscribe wherever you get your podcast and until next time together let's let nothing stop us from experiencing the life that We crave