Embrace your unique leadership presence with Tutti Taygerly, Executive Leadership Coach
About this episode:
Tutti Taygerly, Executive Leadership Coach in Taygerly Labs and published author, join us on the She Built It™ Experience. She shares her family story and what gave her the courage to become an executive coach. In our conversation, you'll hear what was the inspiration for Tutti to write the book Make Space to Lead, and also how she helps leaders to make space for creative flow and focus on what matters in leadership.
Topics Discussed:
Why did she transition from an entertainment career into financial advisory
How do people have all kinds of different feelings around money and finances
What gave her the courage to make her career and life leap to join Northwestern Mutual
Her tips about how to find and live your joy
About Tutti:
Tutti Taygerly is an executive leadership coach and professional speaker, supporting CEOs and tech leaders to embrace their unique leadership style to achieve professional impact. She's previously spent 22 years as a design leader at design firms, startups, and large companies including Disney and Facebook.
Tutti grew up in seven countries on three continents and is settled in San Francisco as her home base. She spends her time parenting two spirited girls, obsessively reading, and paddling out for the next wave.
Her book ‘’Make Space to Lead’’ came out on November 2nd. It's written for high-achieving professionals who believe that we must continually drive ourselves to work harder to gain the success we desire. But the reality is that we’ve trapped ourselves within this pattern of busyness and overwork. She shares stories and techniques for how to make space to figure out what truly fulfills you including using metaphors from her passion, surfing.
Resources:
Click here to read a raw, unedited transcript of this episode:
Melanie Barr: Thank you for joining me today Tutti.
Tutti Taygerly: I'm excited to be here, Melanie.
Melanie Barr: On your website, you say I'm prickly and I thrive on the unexpected. I will see the best in you, help you dream bigger and hold you to those dreams. I absolutely love that. You have worked for well-known companies Disney and Facebook, to name a few. What gave you the idea and the courage to make your leap to become an executive coach?
Tutti Taygerly: Yeah. to be honest, Melanie, I don't think it was my own courage. I think it was a reaction to different circumstances and experiences that that that happened to me. I had been in corporate for 22 years, working at a lot of these big companies, as well as for startups and design studios. And over the course of a year, my father-in-law passed away and I had known him since I was 18. It was, he was suffering from a rare form of cancer, so it had been a couple of years. I'd known him since I was 18. He was like my American father. And the second thing that happened, I ended up getting divorced and I had two school-age kids, it wasn't something that I expected at all. And then finally, in the course of one year, my father also passed. He and my family live in Thailand. I'm a first-generation immigrant. And all three of those things together it was the most terrible year of my life. Was hard, but it helped me to really think and focus on what I wanted. And different people have different purposes for different phases of their life and for me for that particular time, I knew that I wanted to focus on my family and my children. And I also knew that I no longer wanted to work these 60-80 hours a week or for someone else. So that was the impetus towards starting my own business.
Melanie Barr: Isn't it so interesting how when we have kids or when we have these moments that force us to slow down, it's when we really look inside ourselves and figure out what we really want. And you have so much experience working for well-known companies. And it's great that you can now take that experience and help other people.
Tutti Taygerly: Absolutely, and change is hard. Change, challenge, all of this is so hard to deal with, dealing with transitions. But that's what makes us grow. Yeah, and that's beautiful.
Melanie Barr: Yeah. And when you come from working for these large companies and well-known companies, I used to work for the Los Angeles Dodgers, you make these leaps and you think, Who am I now? You're right. You're so right about the changes and the pivots because I have so many conversations with women who as our lives change and grow and life experiences happen, lLike you mentioned, we have to pivot at times with those moments and do the things that honor us.
Tutti Taygerly: Absolutely. So much of my identity was caught up in working in the products that I launched, in the brands that I helped. That was, I would say that with my professional identity, but I would also say that kind of encompassed a lot of the entirety of my identity. And I find that happens with a lot of the startup CEOs that I work with because it's their company. It's nothing that happens with a lot of entrepreneurs. That identity becomes so enmeshed.
Melanie Barr: So true. You also mentioned one key tool of coaching is asking powerful questions to elicit insight from your clients. Share with us a moment where you asked a powerful question to a client and how that helped to better their life.
Tutti Taygerly: I was talking to a woman. She is a woman of color and she wanted to have a louder leadership presence, means executive room, she's often the only woman, the most junior person and the only person of color. And she was struggling with imposter syndrome. Not quite sure how she was going to speak up in and do this. And what was really interesting I asked her. Let's play a game if we're going to think about where things are, how that's transport ourselves three years into the future. You know, it's 2024 right now, and the last three years of your life have been the most amazing and fulfilling and wonderful, both personally and professionally. Tell me what's happened and use the present tense as that question completely shifted her energy because it went from, What's wrong with me? How do I solve this problem? and it shifted it for her into the space of vision and dreaming, and what is it that really matters in her life. Then I remember seeing her face and how she transformed and soft. And in that and of course, we went back eventually to figure out how to what some tactics and actions were her immediate dilemma. But that was something that really shifted the energy of the conversation.
Melanie Barr: You mentioned that you thrive in the unexpected, that had to be a question that she was not expecting.
Tutti Taygerly: I think I'm sorry because so many of us, we live in these parents, these behavior patterns, these subconscious patterns, and we just keep going numb, like zombies on autopilot. So I think a lot of what my job is is to rate people out of the patterns, become more playful, help them recognize that they're stuck in a pattern first and then they can choose what they want to do with that.
Melanie Barr: You wrote a book titled Make Space to Lead. What was your inspiration for writing your book? And I loved reading about you before this interview about how you're constantly reading and learning, and taking in various kinds of knowledge.
Tutti Taygerly: I think I've always been like that since I was a little girl. A lot of the concepts of the book hinge around these two things. You think about a balance beam, there's a balance beam between being and doing, and for myself, as well as for most of the clients that I've supported, we are so over-index towards the doing. It's like, What's the next goal? What's the next milestone? What's the next release? How are we going to hit these achievements? How do we hit these financial goals? It's the culture of tech. It's the culture of the western world. It's this culture of success. And what I've learned through being a professional designer for 22 years is that you can't force creativity and flow and drive. Ironically enough, I knew that in my work as a designer, I didn't quite know that so well for my personal and professional life. But if we talk about this balance beam of being versus doing so, many of us are just completely indexed onto the doing, instead, what really matters is being part of it.
Melanie Barr: And you brought up tech, and I think that's so true. Tech helps us so much in our lives today, in our personal lives and our work lives. But it has caused us to get to this place where we just move so fast.
Tutti Taygerly: We have this badge of busyness, you know, it's like, How are you doing? Oh, I'm so busy. I'm so overwhelmed. I'm doing all this, and it goes back to what you were talking about, about this identity. Your identity is someone important, so unsuccessful because you're so busy. And instead, I wrote, Make Space to Lead to talk about the other side, the doing side, the becoming side, who you are, the emotions, the energy, the joy, the flow, the creativity. And what I talk about because I've seen this through my work as a designer, as someone who creates products and now as a coach is that when you slow down, when you make space, when you give time for that creativity that to gestate and flow, slowing down to rest and take space will actually make you even more successful and fulfilled. You need those periods of rest and rejuvenation. And then you also need periods of go, go, go. But so often we're stuck into that one mode.
Melanie Barr: You're so right, and you mentioned you have two girls.
Tutti Taygerly: Yes.
Melanie Barr: And it's so interesting because I worked for the Dodgers and all I would joke that my car would only drive to Dodger Stadium because I was there 10 to 15 hour days during the season and then leaving sports, and I have twins who just turned eight over the weekend. I went from working since I was 16 years old and loving to work and thriving on work too sitting in a nursery, literally sitting there with two babies who I love so much, but they didn't talk back to me. It's it forced me to slow down. In a way that I probably wouldn't have had, I not had twins but to also think about, what is it that I really want? And I think it's that way for so many women.
Tutti Taygerly: When I had my oldest daughter, she's 13 now, I was working for a design studio and we serviced lots of clients, we helped the world's biggest brands really dream up, What's the future of connected homes? What's the future of autonomous vehicles? What's the future of that dot? And they asked me to go back to work after four weeks.
Melanie Barr: Wow.
Tutti Taygerly: And I did. That's the part of it. That was such my identity and such being driven that I did that Melanie Barr: That had to be hard because what you were doing was so fun and exciting. But I also see how you're missing out on this part of yourself, too.
Tutti Taygerly: Absolutely. Part of me thought that I had it all because when I had my second daughter, they asked me to do the same thing and I was like, No, but I will go to London on assignment because you want me to help with this large media telecoms company. And I said, That's fine, but you're going to hire a nanny and we're going to bring my daughter with me because it's really important for me to keep breastfeeding and doing this. And I think at that time, I thought that I could have it, all balance, I could be like that jet setting, working mom with a baby in tow. And it took me, many, many years later to realize that the path for disaster and burnout and overwhelm, and there was it's no time to breathe or think or do anything else.
Melanie Barr: I do love, that you went for it and that you took her with you. I mean it. Maybe you looking back. It might not have been exactly a perfect moment, but that's one of the shifts we need, the work world today. You know, we are mothers. We're going to continue to have kids, but that doesn't necessarily only define who we are. Tutti Taygerly: Absolutely. And I was in I was lucky enough to be in a position of privilege that I could negotiate for that in my work that I could say, Well, I will do what you want, but here are my conditions, and many people don't have that right.
Melanie Barr: Right. But I love that you stood, you stood up for yourself and that you asked for it because some people might not have even done that, even as the organization and even with, that opportunity. So at least you tried to I mean, maybe it would've worked out and you would've loved it. But you listen to yourself to what you are right for you.
Tutti Taygerly: But as you alluded to from my website, I've tended to be prickly and challenging and demanding and ask for what I need, and I think a lot of that comes from having been a woman in tech for so long and having to put on that armor. I'm sure you know that from working at the Dodgers, just being that person having to put on that armor and not commanding wages so you could hang with the boys, prove your worth and all of that stuff that was, I'd say, so somewhat. And I am really leading from being a feminine leader.
Melanie Barr: I actually learned to like being underestimated because I am not afraid to negotiate with all of my past career experiences. So what I start to do it, I like it when I'm someone is taken off guard a little bit when I am not afraid.
Tutti Taygerly: I love it.
Melanie Barr: I am someone who likes to work and I love what I do, so at times I can easily be consumed by it, what are a few tips that you can give us for making space to lead?
Tutti Taygerly: Yeah, so here's the thing. I'm not going to be like, You don't work this many hours, don't go, don't drive hard because I think it's a balance, and I think that balance is dependent on every, every person. And there might be times in your life where go, go, go, drive working all the time, just constantly driving to Dodger Stadium, that might be perfect and right for you. And that's OK. I think what you want to watch for is energy, joy, play. If you're driven by it and it invigorates you and you can't wait to go and keep going, maybe something happens, maybe they win when these games win the Championship and you're like, Yes, I love my work, I want to keep doing that. Then I say, go for it. Keep doing that because that's going to sustain you. I think it's hard to sustain that level of work and professionalism unendingly over months, years, or decades of your life. I've worked with three times CEOs, and I'm working with them now in their 40s and their 50s, and they look at me and they're like, I've been doing this my entire life. I've sold and exited multiple companies. But is there more? And so what I think the thing that you look for is that feeling when it's not fun anymore, when the energy is not there anymore, when you're starting to get overwhelmed, burned out, you look for that negativity. And it's not necessarily going to be over a day or two, right? Everyone's going to have bad days. Everyone's going to have, Oh my gosh, I don't want to get out of bed on Monday mornings. But you look at this over a period of time and be like, what is happening? Where is my overall energy? Why am I fatigued all the time? And those are the periods of time that I think you really need to make space to lead. And what that means can be different for different people. For some people and for many of us, especially in the United States, one first easy trigger is to take a vacation. At least this is a pattern break. This just stops with the work for, I would say, at least a week if possible, two or three, because that at least gives you the space to be like, OK, how do I stop and consider? What is it that really matters? I want to keep doing this. What am I missing out on? And some people will come back from that vacation rejuvenated, excited, want to work more? That's great. And others will come back with a OK, I need to make a change. I need to do something different. So I'm using vacations as an example because it's probably the most easily accessible.
Melanie Barr: That's great advice because, you might come back ready to take on more, but that's something that we all do. But when you look at it in the mindset of, OK, I'm going to go on vacation and see how I feel when I come back, that's an interesting way to set up that thought process.
Tutti Taygerly: I think the other part of it, too, is see how you feel when you're on vacation. Thinking a lot of the research it can take is 72 hours to slow down. you might still be like, Go, go, go, I just got a check in the office with something, OK? What are all the activities I want to plan, or how are we going to do that? Or what are the restaurants we need? We need to get the reservations, and at least we won't get to eat at that really amazing place. And then I found that there's a magical place after about three days where you slow down. And that's why I think you need vacations a couple of weeks, and that's when you slow down and you go into that. All right. What do I want to do today? Let's see what that feels like. So I think it's noticing that feeling and that energy while on vacation and being like, Hey, what is different with this and regular life? Can I bring some of this in? Or am I a person who's OK just being different? Go, go, go all the time at work, taking this time for vacation, That could work, too. And maybe you need a vacation every month.
Melanie Barr: So true. And it's interesting how we change as we grow in our lives. At Dodger Stadium, I was in my late 20s and then I started looking around thinking, Well, I'm not dating, I'm living at work, and I'd eventually like to have a family. And I almost went to work at Staples Center after, but I was sitting in management meetings and they would say, Well, if there's a concert, you might have to be here at 6:00 and who knows when you're going to leave? And I thought, OK, I need to make a shift and a transition. And it's those moments where we decide to make those pivotal leaps in our life.
Tutti Taygerly: Absolutely. And I think it changes, as you said, depending on where you are in your life. There are different priorities. I think it's really easy in your 20s to spend a ton of time at work. I do think work is a great place to develop an identity. It's a great place to build your drive, build your professionalism, figure out what is it you really love to do. And then there's a time when that might not be the top priority anymore. Of course, it can be important but balanced against other things like partners or family or something else.
Melanie Barr: So true. What is one thing that your business has done for you or taught you and your clients that you didn't realize would happen?
Tutti Taygerly: One thing that I really love about what I do, is that leadership lessons come from coming from everywhere. I feel that I'm finally in a place where what I do professionally and how I live my life personally are really completely integrated. And what I mean by that is everything can be really unexpected. For example, I'm a surfer. I use a lot of surfing metaphors in the book Make Space to Lead. But about a month ago, I had the worst accident that I've ever had, so I still have like the remains of a black eye on that, and this is where weeks later I'm completely OK. There was some scary periods, but I'm completely OK. But what I love and what's been really unexpected about this journey is every single thing. It's not a disaster, it's simply a thing that happens, things that happen in life. There's so much to be learned from it, whether it's resilience, whether it's the fact that I still have trouble asking for help with people that I still, you know, want to keep going despite being slower because I'm suffering from maybe the late effects of a concussion. So that's learning. And then the other learning is that everything that I go through and everything that my clients go through, they teach me as much as I teach them because it's everything is connected and there's leadership opportunities all around.
Melanie Barr: Isn't that such a beautiful thing?
Tutti Taygerly: There really is, and it makes it super fun.
Melanie Barr: Yeah, I truly believe you can learn something from everyone. I was curious because I live in a beach community. How do you tie, surfing into your teaching and what you do now?
Tutti Taygerly: So I learned to surf in Newport Beach, California. Yet I was living a couple of houses from the beach and I figured, Hey, I got to start this, it's something that I've wanted to do, and I think surfing was my path out of this continual doing, striving must be good at everything that I do, because for the amount of time I spend in the water and surfing and doing it, I'm a terrible surfer, but I love it. I love it so much. And many people think of surfing as you see that powerful person riding the wave and carving and doing aerials and doing cutbacks and all of these things. But the reality is that is so little in there over the course of a surfing session. You know, if if I'm out for an hour or two, I might spend five seconds up and riding the wave. And instead, there are these other aspects, there are these other aspects as I'm sure you know, you've got to train, you've got a paddle, you've got to get strong and stretch and really keep practicing and going. And then there's a lot of sitting and you're surrounded by nature and it's beautiful and there are animals and you're scanning the horizon to see what's coming and what the next waves are. And for me, it's such a beautiful analogy for putting in the effort, putting in hours, but also you waiting to be patient to look and see what's the right way for me and not always having to take the first one. The lesson I still have trouble learning. And so to me, it's just this beautiful analogy that there is all these different pieces of time, and it's not always just that heroic moment up and riding the wave.
Melanie Barr: How it has to be so therapeutic. And I would also think it would remind us of how small in this world we really are because the ocean is just massive and its own beast and being in itself.
Tutti Taygerly: Absolutely. And we talked a little earlier about how do people know and how do they make space to lead. What about love, It is about context switching, and it can be as easy as just getting outside, getting away from behind a computer and just stepping outside, being out in nature, taking a walk, looking at the stars, there is something incredibly therapeutic about changing that context. There are so many days in our life and I still do it while I look up and I'll be like, Oh my gosh, it's dinnertime. And I haven't walked outside, especially in COVID times now, right?
Melanie Barr: I feel so guilty because I live by the ocean and I'm only a few blocks, so it wouldn't take long of the walk to see it. But some days I go and I don't see it and I'm thinking, OK, this is wrong because it takes you out of whatever work mode or whatever has happened during the day and just helps those things just dissipate.
Tutti Taygerly: Exactly. Stepping outside, that's an instant way to take some space.
Melanie Barr: Magic happens when we focus on the part of ourselves and our business. That brings us joy. What is one tip that you can leave with us today about how you find and live your joy? Tutti Taygerly: Yeah. So. I think a lot of times we'll think about big things like when's that next vacation or, Oh my gosh, I'm going to this really lovely dinner or this concert that's up ahead. But I've been spending a lot of time on is fairly small bits of joy and gratitude. So it's going through the course of a day and being like and looking at, oh, what was that taste of that bite of food? And for me, I have cats, what does it feel like just to sit for a moment and pet my cat Mochi and feel her rumbling mighty vibration? And so my advice would be to look for joy in the little things, looks joy in the unexpected small daily habits of what you're doing, and how do you celebrate these little things and make them joyful and be grateful for them.
Melanie Barr: Yeah, so true. Thank you so much for joining us today. I knew I was going to love our interview and that we would have so much knowledge and motivation and inspiration. So thank you for sharing all the stories with us.
Tutti Taygerly: Absolutely.
Melanie Barr: Can you please tell our listeners how and where they can find you?
Tutti Taygerly: You can always find me on LinkedIn at Tutti Taygerly, yet I'm on Instagram at @tuti. And for more on my book, the URL is https://www.tuttitaygerly.com/book and accessible in all the ways I happily chat and reach out. So please, please come to chat.